10 Marriage Tips for Military Spouses with author and fellow mil spouse Beth Runkle

[00:00:00] welcome to the show today.

[00:00:02] We have Beth, who is going to be talking to us about a couple of different things. So we'll talk about your military life so far. And then you have just recently published a book. And so we'll get into that. And then we're also. We're also going to share some marriage tips for military spouses, because that is a hot topic for us.

[00:00:22] I do believe so. Welcome to the show, Beth. I'm happy to have you here. Thank you. It's an honor to be with you and I appreciate what you do for military spouses and families. Yeah. , I always like to start with, , who you are and what your military affiliation is and what your military life has looked like.

[00:00:38] If you would like to dive in. Sure. So I I'm a 25 year military spouse. My husband was air force. He did 25 years. And we are retired now, but we now work full time in ministry to the military. So we were not ready to leave our military people behind. We work for a ministry called crew military. And we do ministry at the air force Academy at Peterson space for space at Fort Carson.

[00:01:10] And. some of the surrounding areas as well. And that kind of came about really the ministry that we had already been doing when we are on active duty. But to give you a little picture of who I am, I met my husband at a wedding as a bridesmaid. He was a groomsman. And he had not really felt it necessary to tell me anything about what military life might be.

[00:01:34] And so we moved three times our first year of marriage. Then we showed up to that duty station. We unpacked our boxes and he deployed to the Middle East. And I kind of found myself thinking like, what in the world have I gotten myself into? Like, this is not at all what I thought marriage was like, you know, I had been very career minded and it's really hard to continue to do well in your career when you move three times in one year.

[00:01:57] Mm hmm. Yeah. And so it did not take very long. My husband would deploy four times in those two and a half years. So it did not take very long for me to just really hate the military and everything about it. And unfortunately I would tell my husband that a lot. So marriage was not going real well and I really think it was, you know, mostly my fault.

[00:02:21] Because I just, What I didn't want anything to do with the military. I didn't want him to use his acronyms. I didn't want him to You know ask me if I did in processing, you know, I was like no I am a normal person

[00:02:37] So we would move again and at this new duty station We ran into some people my husband had known from college and they had found faith in Christ and they invited us to attend their Bible study and I was desperate for community. So we went to this Bible study and it was on the book of Genesis. And in that Bible study, it was the first time I'd ever opened the word of God.

[00:03:04] I had been raised going to church as a kid, but did not understand the significance of the Christian faith, did not understand You know, that, that Jesus paid the penalty for my sin. But also in that Bible study, I felt incredibly seen by God because he would choose in his sovereignty. The very first time I would study the Bible, he put me in the story of Sarah and Abraham.

[00:03:28] And I believe when God called Sarah and Abraham to go to a land that he would show them, which is the beginning of their journey, that was a PCS. Like they were the first PCSers. And their life just had so many parallels. They were constantly resettling. They went to Canaan, they went to Bethel, they went down to Egypt, they came back to Bethel, they went by the Oaks of the Marm and, and on and on.

[00:03:50] They were just resettling only they were doing it on the backs of like donkeys and camels. Like I at least had movers and a moving van, which I know isn't so much of a deal right now because people are having to do diddy because it's gotten less desirable to have your military provided movers. Yes. And then also Abraham went off and fought in combat when he went to rescue his nephew Lot from the four kings in the armies.

[00:04:15] Like it was a brutal, their, their combat back then in the ancient times was very brutal. And so I just felt. Like drawn to figure out God and to figure out faith in him, because I felt like God was saying, I see you, I see how invisible you feel. I see how you feel like you're in your husband's shadow.

[00:04:36] And I have a purpose for you and I want to speak to you. So about a year later, we went to a marriage conference and again, marriage was not going real well for us because I was so bitter about the military. And at that conference, they laid out. The biblical blueprint for marriage, like, what does the Bible say about marriage?

[00:04:57] And we realized we were doing it all wrong. I kind of think I had been trained for marriage by the romantic comedies I grew up watching, which don't get me wrong. I love a good romantic comedy, but it's not always the best marriage advice. You know, romantic comedy tells you, you should be happy. And this other person should make you happy.

[00:05:14] And I, Believe that in God's view, that marriage is a picture of the relationship between Jesus and his church, and that our marriage is not so much about making us happy, but making us holy and really just leaning into God. So we came back from that marriage conference and. Felt led to begin leading other couples and small group marriage studies to begin sharing some of this information with them So that's what we continued to do Basically, we would get boots on the ground Unpack some of our boxes and start inviting people to our home to come do small group studies with us And we did that in 12 of the 14 locations that we lived And it was really just such a blessing to us because we weren't we weren't making a difference in other people's marriages, but we were also continuing to make deposits in our own to remind ourselves of, you know, what marriage should like, should look like, how we should be sacrificial.

[00:06:15] You know, how to respect my husband, how to love my husband and him, how to love me sacrificially as Christ loves the church. So we just, So God transformed me from the, I hate the military to these are the people that I'm called to and I would show up at a new location and see like, wow, nobody welcomes people here, or I don't feel welcome and I would just say, I can do that.

[00:06:43] I was still working at the time, but I, you know, began making time to invest in other military families and make them feel welcome and kind of stop the pity party and said, how can I be an agent of change? You know, how can I make a difference? I also began leading, you know other military spouses and Bible study often sitting on the living room floor of my base house.

[00:07:06] So nothing fancy. But just a way to encourage you know, people with similar life experience. I think we really, really need people, that can relate to our odd life experiences. You're challenging, but great life. I mean, it's a great adventure, but we need people. So that's kind of the way that I started creating. 

[00:07:28] Let's see, we did a 14 assignments. Only one of them was overseas and we did a remote in Korea as a family. We always wanted Europe. But that was not in the cards for us. We, my husband was a pilot and he did a lot of assignments where there's really great airspace, which means there's not a whole lot great below it.

[00:07:50] Yeah. That we really came to value the people more than the place. And probably there was a lot of locations. I drove into crying that we were going there and I left crying even harder that we were leaving there. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've heard that from a couple of different people and I, I always find that interesting when we, you know, Because you know in a lot of the military groups and stuff that you're in people are like give me the good the bad the Ugly on whatever place you are and inevitably someone's going to be like, oh my god It's the worst place ever.

[00:08:25] I hate it and then two people down is going to be like I loved it It was great. We had the best neighbors, you know what i'm saying? Like it's just everybody's perception is different. And so I just I I really, I really wish we would stop doing that because, you know, your, I, I hated our Florida duty stations.

[00:08:43] They were my least favorite that we've been to Washington state has been my favorite that we've been to. And most people are the exact opposite. So it really just depends on you and what, you know, yeah, I think attitude is everything right. You can, and honestly, some of the like. Better assignments. We had, that was a bigger area with all the shops and restaurants and all that stuff.

[00:09:05] People are so spread out. So you don't see your military friends as much, you know, when we lived in the middle of nowhere, you can't live that spread out. Cause you're all living, you know, either on or near the base. So there's a lot greater community. And I just really do think attitude is essential.

[00:09:25] You can go to the worst location. Okay. With the best attitude and love it and vice versa, you can go to the best location with a bad attitude and hate it. So it's really just about what you make of it. And, and for me, I had to have a perspective shift, you know, to not just feel so sorry for myself and say, how am I going to accept that if God has allowed me to marry this military man, that this is the life that God has for me and I'm to make the best of it and I'm serve these people while I'm doing this crazy life.

[00:09:59] And we moved like on an average of like every one and a half years. Yeah. So it was a lot of moving. But I have so many friends all over the place. Yeah. And so many people I would have never connected to, you know, had I not done this crazy adventure. Yeah, I, I see that for sure. Cause we're at, we've been married for 22 years.

[00:10:20] So the same with us. Like we've been, we've been a lot of places and we have friends in a lot of different places for sure. Yeah. So your husband was already military when you guys got married? Yes. He was finishing up pilot training. Okay. So then for those people that are like, you knew what you were getting into when you married someone in the military, that just rubs real nice, doesn't it?

[00:10:46] Yeah. Cause you're like, hang on a second now. I don't, and honestly, I really am thankful that he didn't tell me what to expect. I mean, I'm really, he didn't know, right. They're not going to know. But I don't think I would have married him because I think control would have been so hard to give up.

[00:11:08] And he's a great man and we've had a great life. It just is really different than what I thought it would be. But I feel like God knew that I knew that I needed to not know that I was giving up control because I wouldn't have married him. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I think that's, that's a great, Insight is that you really do you give up there so and I feel like for a lot of spouses I know it's a challenge for me is that's one of the things that is so Hard is that we don't have any you've no control And so then you do try to control maybe too much the things that we can right?

[00:11:44] Yes, but you're Your attitude and your mental health, right? That is one of the things that you can control. So, but yeah, there's so, I think that is part of that makes it so challenging is that we don't, we, we lack a lot of control and stability, which are like, you know, basic human needs, but they're pretty darn close.

[00:12:04] I mean, the top five most stressful things. You know, in those is moving and we like do it all the time. So it is hard. Yeah, it is hard. And I, and I'm not going to deny that. But I learned to embrace it. And one of the things I used to say to myself, we got a lot of assignments that like, you, you really didn't want, like, it was like the, like, it wasn't even on your, in the air force, we call it the dream sheet.

[00:12:32] You rank your assignments. It wasn't even on the dream sheet and we like get it. And it was on our like don't want to go list. Sure. And we had that happen a couple of times and you know, my husband would come and tell me and I would actually say out loud, this helped me. I would say God out ranks even the generals and to just remind myself that we might not want it.

[00:12:57] But that God had a purpose and a plan and maybe sometimes it was for us to impact people and other times it was for people to impact and pour into us. So you just had to say, there's nothing I can do about it. So I'm going to, you know, my thing was, Lord, help me to be teachable to learn that lesson that you want me to, to get quickly in that new location.

[00:13:17] Yeah. Wow. Well, that's a good one. I mean, it's a. That's a way to look at it for sure. Yeah. It's a give up, given the control to somebody else or just, yeah, kind of let that go. So let's kind of pivot just a little bit and talk about your book. So you just released a book. So what did that look like with the, how did that come about?

[00:13:36] And then kind of the, the nuts and bolts of getting it actually out into the world? Yeah, well, the book is called another move God, and it is a book for military wives. And it takes the reader through the journey of Sarah Abraham that I talked about some of the parallels. I mean, it just takes them step by step through the scriptures and says, what does this have to teach the modern military spouse about her life?

[00:14:03] It's about changing her perspective and about trusting God and recognizing that, you know, you can have peace in the midst of your chaos and uncertainty. If you rely on God, it is traditionally published. I, did not really expect to get traditionally published. It's really hard to get traditionally published in today's day and age.

[00:14:25] I went to a writers and speakers conference several years ago, not even intending to become a writer or speaker. It was, it was it was something I was told to do by my boss in the ministry. But began to make connections there for people that seemed to feel like there was a need for more content written for military spouses.

[00:14:47] And I was getting my master's degree in theological studies at the time. So kind of just felt the Lord nudging me that perhaps he was equipping me to do that. So I did write a proposal, went back to the writers and speakers conference the next year and was able to land an agent, which if you want to be traditionally published, I would highly, highly recommend that you go that route.

[00:15:12] For example, my publisher which B& H is Lifeways Trade Book Division, it's a big publisher. I don't have access to them. As a, an author myself, only agents have access to them. And that is a lot of the traditional publishers. There are some but of all the books they're going to take in a year, they might take one that's not coming through an agent.

[00:15:34] So I'm very thankful my agent has a heart for the military. And then he was able to find a publisher that had a heart for the military spouse. It is hard to get. a book specifically for the military niche because you know, currently there's about a million military spouses in the United States.

[00:15:59] When you consider, you know, guard active duty reserve, all those there is, you know, 12 million veteran spouses. So that's a much bigger number, but you know, a lot of traditional publishers are just like, that's too small. It's really not worth our effort. So my publisher took my book and also Ashley Ashcraft, which released a military marriage book.

[00:16:24] A few months before mine. So they took both of us. I, I don't know for sure, but I think perhaps they thought there might be some streamlining they could do by releasing them fairly close together and understanding that market. But honestly, a big thing that I've learned is even if you are traditionally published. 

[00:16:45] They do edit the book for you and print the book for you, but on the marketing the social media, that is all on you. You do it all. I think I thought they would do a little more than they have, but that's okay. I've tried to be very faithful to do my part. Because I want to be a good steward of this opportunity.

[00:17:07] I've been given. And also I want this hope and encouragement to get in the hands of more military spouses. I do not believe I will make money on this. And that's something that I want people to know. I don't feel that I've done this as a means to make money to get rich. I won't. This is a ministry for me.

[00:17:32] This is something that God called me to basically expand who I'm able to impact to a larger audience. I have seen a lot of veteran spouses buy the book just to read it. And then also to gift it to, you know, young people. Military spouses. Yeah. So you definitely can consider self publishing. I did not. 

[00:17:58] I had an author friend of mine who's been very successful. Just kind of say, Hey, Beth, I want you to, to try to go traditional. I want you to see if you can get the deal. Don't know if I would have self published or not. Because I just didn't go there. But it is a very viable means. I'm in a writer's group here in Colorado Springs and more people in my writer's group self publish than anything else.

[00:18:26] It's very doable now with Amazon and all the things you know, and you. With Amazon print on demand. Like you don't even, you used to have to spend like 20, 000 to get your books printed. You don't have to do that anymore. So you don't have to be traditionally published. I'm glad I am because I do think it gives more credibility to me.

[00:18:50] So people say, Oh, she's published with life way. Like they have a good reputation and I'm, I am very glad. Since it is content based on the Bible, I will really, it's very important for me to be theologically sound. I don't want to be leading people astray. So that was one of the great benefits of traditional publishing.

[00:19:10] They had a theological editing team, so it just helps ensure that I'm doing a good job being true to the scriptures, which is super important to me. Yeah. Okay, cool. Very good. So okay. So then let's kind of pivot from that shot and go into your marriage tips that you have. You have 10 tips that you actually have on your website and I'll make sure that we link to your website in the show notes, but you actually have this as a, as a downloadable PDF in your, in, on your website that people can access, but let's go through the top 10.

[00:19:48] Top 10 tips for military spouses. Yeah. So basically my sweet spot is marriage ministry. That's what my husband and I have done the most. I'm really passionate about it because, you know, my marriage did almost fail. So I put this up there. I did a lot of research on this. I surveyed over a hundred military spouses and you know, got all of their feedback on what things they felt like everyone needed to know.

[00:20:19] So I did get some help on this, but I, I believe in all of these. And I think They are all helpful. Military families do have a higher divorce rate than our civilian counterparts. Yeah. And divorce is actually even higher when you get to be veteran. Because people are done with their military career and their pace isn't as aggressive.

[00:20:41] And they kind of say, Hey, let's deal with this stuff. And a lot of times they throw in the towel because they've let the problems go too long. So that's one of the reasons that I'm super passionate about Military marriage. And then this is just 10 tips to help your military marriage, not just survive, but thrive.

[00:20:58] So the first one is about managing expectations. And I think we have to manage expectations in a couple of different areas. I think we need to realize, and this is something I didn't realize at first, that our spouse does not just have a job. This is duty. They have the military. They have to take orders.

[00:21:16] They have superiors, right? And I think My husband was so good about reminding me a lot that he had to go do such and such, but he'd rather be with me. And that went a long way for me. I would remember that, you know, when I would start to feel bitter. But when, when expectations are managed, it means when something doesn't happen, we don't give them a guilt trip about it. 

[00:21:42] And I realized like, My husband always had the best intention. So he might tell me on a Sunday, Hey, I'm, I'm going to be home for dinner every night this week. Cause you know, maybe he hadn't been home in a few weeks for dinner, but I began to realize that's because he wants to be home every night this week, but the realistic expectation.

[00:22:03] Is that things are going to come up and he's not going to be home for dinner every night this week. So when he came home, I welcomed him with open arms and was thrilled to have him there. But when he did not come home, when he came home later, I did not have my arms closed. I still welcomed him. I didn't hold it against him.

[00:22:22] That duty had called because he did prioritize us when he could, but you know, adding to that bitterness, it's, it's just going to drive a wedge between you and the other area of demand expectations is that. It's just a reality when they go TDY or deploy, things are going to break, kids are going to get sick.

[00:22:41] The car's going to break down, like expect it. It happens every single time. You know, Murphy's law, like I don't know that non military people really understand how much of a thing it is. It always happens. Yeah. And I think it's easier if you tell yourself as they're fixing to leave. Something major is going to go down and I got to mentally prepare myself for it.

[00:23:02] Yeah. Yeah. And then usually when that happens, they're also unreachable, Oh, by the way, Oh, by the way, you know, plan you know, it was really helpful for us to find someone else who could be there you know, to call me when. something major happens. I'm not good with like equipment or fixing things around the house, anything like that.

[00:23:22] Some people are, you know, whether it be a neighbor or another military spouse that's in a different unit, you know, and didn't have to deploy. Yeah. So that's the first one. The next one is I want to encourage you to go to the briefings and the activities offered for the spouses, especially when your spouse will be deploying.

[00:23:42] Sometimes And I was this way in the beginning. We can have this attitude of like, I'm going to do my own thing and I'm not going to like do the military thing. But I think we're really missing out on a part of the best things of the military is that we can have this family that can help us thrive.

[00:24:00] And I really think it's important during deployments and sometimes with the rush to get mission ready and to leave and all the checklists and everything they have to do when they're fixing to deploy, they might forget to either notify. Their spouse or, or let the, you know, the readiness center know that you've got a spouse that you want them to reach out to during deployment.

[00:24:23] So I would say like, if you've not been reached out to call either your family readiness group, if you're army or a fleet and family readiness center. center, airman family readiness center, call them and find out about what offering once a month. They're going to have a dinner for you. They're going to offer you free childcare once a month, but you need to go.

[00:24:43] You need this support system and I think phones are gray. I use my phone all the time, but I think it can sometimes get in the way of us getting that face to face connection. We need your life as a military spouse is very, very hard and you need some people who understand and it can help pull you up on those down days.

[00:25:04] Sometimes people that don't understand the military culture don't do that very well because they'll just say, I don't know how you do it. It's so hard. Well, yes, but that's not helping me. I don't need you to tell me I don't know how you do it. I need someone else who's going to say, okay, Beth, come on, let's have an attitude change.

[00:25:24] I know you can do this. I believe in you. This is what I recommend. This is what I do. Else to say, yeah, it sucks right now, but we're not going to stay in that spot. Yeah. Right. Let me help pull you out. Yeah. The other one is date your spouse and this is, A huge thing that people say like finances are tight.

[00:25:45] We don't have a babysitter, all the things. So we had to be creative on this. I think dating your spouse is critical. We need to keep that connection and remember why we fell in love that we're not just roommates. We need to communicate. So what we did is sometimes we found another military family that had kids about our age age.

[00:26:08] about the same number. I mean, usually we have a small family cause we have infertility, but so we always had to take in more kids than what we had. Like it wasn't an even thing, but we alternated every Saturday night. Like, we'll watch your kids one week. You watch ours the next. And the kids are like having the best time.

[00:26:25] I mean, they're getting fed like chicken nuggets and fish sticks and Mac and cheese, like fun stuff, getting to play with their friends. And the mom and dad are getting to go on a date in this like, This, this one couple, we did this for two years, every single Saturday night. And then we also gave each other a weekend away, which is another one of my tips later.

[00:26:41] Other times we didn't have that other couple, but we, you know, the kids go to bed early. And so we would date our, each other in our living room. And sometimes, you know, we came up with like a theme. One time I did like, let's pretend we're at the beach and we got out the umbrella and the towels. That's another time we did a picnic.

[00:26:59] It doesn't have to be creative. We didn't always do that, but it's intentional time where you get off your device and you just spend time together and you, you set it aside, you make it a priority. Yeah. And so similar number four is get at least a date night away, a night away, like 24 hours with your spouse every year.

[00:27:18] And again, I know this is really hard, but I feel like this is the secret sauce. To my marriage. I've been happily married for 27 years. We've done this every year, you know it's just so critical to build communication, to build intimacy again and just to get away together. So, you know, we would ask parents to fly out to do this.

[00:27:45] We would ask military friends to watch our kids. We would pay sometimes, you know, an older teen who we knew who was responsible, but we prioritized it and I think it's just critical. Mm hmm. Number five is don't add to the disappointment of the difficulties of serving the needs of the military. So you are going to get disappointments.

[00:28:08] Your spouse is going to bring home news that you're moving when you don't want to, where you don't want to that their assignment got changed that something happened with their career that is out of his or her control. Right. So I think we have to like, they don't get that promotion. We have to affirm our love and support and cheerlead them and not add to the disappointment.

[00:28:36] Our spouse needs us to know that they believe in him because they are going to really question that at times. Yeah. I think that all men you know, have fears and temptations and, and they need you to be their cheerleader and not really heap on the negativity with being disappointed yourself. 

[00:28:58] And again, just remind yourself that God is in control. Even when things happen that were not your plan that it's his plan. Number six is just to really encourage you to have a life of prayer. You know, I am a person of the Christian faith but I would say, Our military members, they carry weapons.

[00:29:22] They use very expensive equipment with weapons and they go to war, but we are not helpless. We have a weapon and I believe that weapon is the spiritual weapon of prayer. So just like they take their weapons to fight their battles, we can trust that God. Can protect our military member or protect our family or protect our marriage.

[00:29:45] And I just think that prayer is essential. To putting that layer of protection on your spouse and your marriage. In my book, I talk about that. There was a time that Abraham was reeling with fear. And God spoke to him in a vision and said, I am your shield. And I think that really relates to us as a military spouse for our military member.

[00:30:12] God is our shield. Our shield is something you get behind that protects you, that covers you. And God can be that shield, but we, we, we have to use that weapon, which is prayer. And that really helps me as well not focus on the fears, right? To say, okay, I'm going to give this to God and I'm going to trust that he can be my shield.

[00:30:34] Okay. Number seven is communication is key. And obviously. This is a big deal in any marriage, but it's even more so in the military because we're separated from our spouse a lot. You know, they're deployed, they're TDY, they're working long hours. My husband night flu for two years. So basically I did not see him Monday through Friday.

[00:30:53] So I think you have to use multiple lines of communication and keep them open. So all the things, let's see what I wrote down here. Text, emails, phone calls, notes, like paper notes, virtual calls. Marco Polo is a great resource if you're like on a totally different time schedule. But you have to build life into your marriage even when you're separated.

[00:31:17] And I think we do that via communication. And I know like letters are old fashioned, but I still have all those letters. I've got you too. They're so special. And Like when, when something happens unexpected, I don't like, or maybe my husband just ticks me off, right? I will go get some of those notes and read them and remind myself that he is a good man.

[00:31:42] Remind myself, you know, that he has been faithful and that he does love me. I just love those handwritten notes. So I think we have to do all the things and be intentional. And there's. Things that we need to talk about. My husband and I love to, you know, when we have a day night, to be intentional, to talk about some of these things.

[00:32:03] You know, some suggestions are what's working. What are your joys? What are your struggles? What are some goals we can set? What do you need? That's a really good question to ask each other. You can talk about your intimacy. I actually think it's important to talk about our sex life. Mm hmm. And you can also talk about your finances, but we got to talk about these things.

[00:32:22] We assume so much that the other person can get in our head and they can't get in our head. So we got to communicate. Yeah. Okay. Number eight, let your husband lead. Now this is really hard. Because I think that Military spouses are strong women and men, right? I'm talking about in this particular situation with number eight, this is specific to the wives, right?

[00:32:49] And we learn to navigate seasons of solo parenting and conquer all the things of military life. And often we are steering the ship alone and the ship is doing fine. But what happens is our spouse comes home, And we don't let them back in. Now, I do believe when they've been on deployment, that there needs to be a reintegration period where you kind of let them sit back and observe and ease back in because they are no longer at war.

[00:33:18] And, you know, they might have little toddlers now and little toddlers don't Act like soldiers, they don't take orders, they throw tantrums, maybe some soldiers do throw tantrums, but I have not seen that happen. But then we need to, to let them lead and not criticize their parenting, tell them they're not doing it right. 

[00:33:43] You know, undermine their authority. And I think we really need to esteem them with words and actions. And it is this is hard. It is a dance to let them back in and let them lead. Because honestly, they haven't been there. And children are changing so much, right? Stages and ages. Like, you know, you can be gone for three months and the kids are really different.

[00:34:07] Gone for a year. They're really, really different. And you and your spouse have changed as well. But I think we have to be intentional to begin communicating about this while they're on deployment. Hey, how are we going to reintegrate? How am I going to bring you back in? What do you need? And, you know, what I need talk about it before the conflict comes, but you have to let them come back in, which to be honest, for me, this is a pride pill.

[00:34:36] I got to, I got to swallow because I've been doing all the things, but they want to come back in, you know, and I have to allow them to lead. And maybe that means. He's doing something I don't like with the kids and I just like let it happen for a second and then later kind of tell him like, Hey, you know, we don't really do it that way anymore.

[00:34:57] Or, Hey, remember they're, they're, they're little kids. Like, you, you know, you can't bark orders at them. But I think that culture, does not get a good view on the role of women. I think that we have like two extremes. We either have like aggressively dominating our husband and like, we are woman hear us roar or we have people saying like, be a doormat, be a, you know, be passive, don't participate in decision.

[00:35:27] That's all. And so I think this sweet spot is perfectly balanced between the two. Right. And I don't always do it perfectly. And this is a huge area that I have grown in throughout my marriage. Right. But what I have learned is that. When I'm in that sweet spot balanced, really the reason I'm able to do that is because ultimately I trust God that he can speak to my husband just like he can speak to me.

[00:35:55] And that my, my husband is the leader and I've got to let him lead. And it is a dance, but I think you've got to continually remind yourself like, Hey, he's not been here, but he wants to come back in. He wants to be in the leadership role. And I think it also makes transition. Into retirement, which we have done.

[00:36:14] I mean, we both work in ministry now, but he's not wearing the uniform anymore. And that is an adjustment too. And the more you've let them lead when they're on active duty, the easier this transition is and they come to retirement. Yeah. Okay. Two more. Ironclad trust is a must. And obviously when you are married to a military member, they are gone a lot.

[00:36:39] And I think that we have to have this trust. And trust that this person will not hurt us or violate our trust. And to have trust, you have to be vulnerable and open to the position without defensively protecting yourself. So some of the ways I think we can cultivate this ironclad trust is first of all, don't keep secrets from your spouse.

[00:37:05] And I know that can be hard. I think you have to try to the best of your ability to keep your word, understanding that life happens sometimes for the service member or for the, the spouse that's at home. And I think we have to avoid any type of relationship with a member of the opposite gender because statistically most physical affairs start with an emotional affair first.

[00:37:34] Mm hmm. And It's hard, but I think it's really, really important that we protect our marriage, that we just say like, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to have a friendship on deployment with someone of the opposite gender. And then I also think a key thing to building trust. is assuming the best in your spouse, like giving them the benefit of doubt.

[00:37:57] I'll be honest. For many years I would assume the worst in my spouse, like just jump to that negative conclusion right away. When I realized because my husband and I had to talk about it one time and he said, do you remember I chose you of all the people in this world to marry? I choose you. I'm want to do the best for you.

[00:38:19] Why do you always jump? To assuming the worst about me. And so I think that's a way we build trust is we just say, you know what, I'm going to assume even though a, B and C happen and I'm disappointed, I'm going to assume the best.

[00:38:33] I think that's one something to, I say that to my girls all the time. I'm like, assume positive intent.

[00:38:40] So somebody says something at school or something happens here. Don't automatically think that. You know, go, which is what we tend to do, right? So assume positive. Yeah. Assume positive intent. I think that that, I think that's great for marriage. And I think that also works really well for our kids as well.

[00:38:56] Yeah. All relationships or life, right? Like you never know, right? Like, Oh my God, I can't believe that person just said this or just did that. And then be like, step back. Well, you know, maybe. You, you never know what's going on in their life at that moment. Right. And we don't know, especially when our spouse is downrange, we don't know what they're going through.

[00:39:16] Right. You know, they may have just, you know, taken part in something really intense and difficult. And so we just need to remind ourselves of that perspective. Yeah. And then the final thing on building trust is just to the best of your ability, be predictable. And obviously things are going to come up, but you know, if, if you have a set time every week or every day when you do, you know, a video call, try to do it.

[00:39:41] If you can't communicate, you know, that just builds that trust. Cause when you don't speaking from the spouse's point of view, when they say they're going to call and they didn't call, All of a sudden your mind can start going these places. So the spouse has to try to keep their word, but we also have to say, I'm going to assume the best and not say, you know, not go there with this negative thought.

[00:40:02] Cause we can really easily spiral downward into this, this absolute pit of lies, things that are not true. Yeah. Okay. And the last one, number 10 is do not use the D word. That is the divorce word. And I have learned that. Not only should I not threaten it, but I should not even go there in my thought life.

[00:40:27] Like, I cannot let myself say that is a viable option because if I go there in my thought life, I will convince myself that that is the place to go. So I just think we have to stop it and say, nope, Like, we are fighting for this marriage. We are going to stay together. We are going to work through this.

[00:40:44] And I want to encourage just your listeners. I've been married for 27 years. My marriage has been like the stock market. There are ups and downs, but it's always on an upward trajectory because when we earn a down, we stay committed and we say, we're going to ride this out until the market goes up again.

[00:41:06] And so my marriage has. Honestly, it's gotten so much better the first couple of years because of me and my complaining and discontent. It was just really rough, but I mean, all, all marriage is rough, but it is so worth it when you remain committed, you know, and you stay in it together and you say, we are going to be on the same team.

[00:41:30] Yeah, I just really encourage people, please don't use the D word and it is very it's very upsetting for our children when they hear that word even spoken about, even if you're in anger and you say, you know, why don't we just get a divorce? I understand that's so easy because you're really hurt at that moment, but that is so destabilizing for our children.

[00:41:53] And they already have so much instability in their life with all the moves and the service member gone and all the transition, right? Please don't add yet another thing. And I can say my kids are in college now. They survived, but it was hard on them. My kids moved nine and 10 times in their lives in the school. 

[00:42:15] More than that when you consider now but it's, it is tough on them and we have to do what we can to provide that stability. So no D words. Yeah. Okay. So a couple of things, but the one that is like fresh for this particular situation is what if you don't have a spouse that's on the same page? So what if you're like.

[00:42:39] You know, you're the spouse that's home and your significant other is is deployed or or T. D. Y. Or whatever. And You're they're saying, I'm not happy. This did it. And they're talking leading down the road to divorce. And you're like, no, we need to fight for this. What if you don't have a partner that is willing to fight with you?

[00:43:00] How do you handle that? Or what is your advice for that? Yeah, 2 things. I think 1st of all, I'm a huge fan of marriage counseling. And counseling in general we did move a lot. We have done marriage counseling multiple times. I've been to counseling as a military spouse, just struggling. My kids have been to counseling.

[00:43:21] I, I personally think I love the military life. They're my favorite people in the world. I love everything. I'm so glad that we did it, but at the same point, it's very hard. And I think we have to say it is okay to go talk to somebody. There are so many resources now, right? Now you have doctors on demand, telemind, you have military one source, you have chaplains, you have your military family life counselors.

[00:43:47] There's something else too. Oh, thank you. There's just so many, excuse me, tri care counseling, so many free resources, get the help, but most marriages wait too long. And I I did a Christian counseling class as part of my master's degree and we had several guest speakers and they all told me that marriage counseling was the least successful because people wait too long.

[00:44:15] They wait until the marriage is already dead. And then the other thing I would say is I really believe in the power of prayer. If your spouse has a closed mind, you are praying God changed their mind, but you keep fighting. You keep fighting. Even if you're fighting alone, you're going to keep fighting. 

[00:44:32] I had on, I do Instagram lives every week and two weeks ago I had Ashley Sullivan. She's the woman in warrior t shirt gal. I love Ashley. She's been on the show quite a few times, but she shared that basically she went to her husband. I think it was in the first two years of her marriage, she went and brought him to voice papers and said, I want a divorce.

[00:44:54] And she slid them across the table. And he said, Ashley. I'm not going to help you get a divorce. I'm totally committed to you. You're going to have to figure out how to get this divorce on your own. And God used that to change her heart towards them. And now they've been married 14 years, have four kids.

[00:45:10] And I just think that's such a beautiful story that he was like, I'm not giving up on you. I am not going to help you get this divorce. And God used that to soften her heart. So just want to encourage you. Like, I believe that God can do anything. There's nothing that is impossible for him. I have had.

[00:45:29] You know, we've had a number of friends in the military that have gotten divorced and honestly between 20 to 25 years seems to be the spot when people are getting more divorces. And you know, they agree to go to mediation and just do the paperwork. Don't agree to go. Keep fighting for your marriage, you, you fight and you pray and Christian counseling earlier rather than later.

[00:45:54] Yeah. Even if your spouse won't go, I know that happens. You continue to pray that God would soften their heart, but you go to counseling. Because you, you need someone to help you process and we have all these free resources for our military families because we recognize it's hard. And a lot of people have a negative stigma associated with any kind of counseling in the military, right?

[00:46:16] They call it mental health. Oh no, I don't want that on my record. And it was a little hill for us to get over with my husband to agree to go to marriage counseling with me. You know, he was like, Hey no, we're, we're good. We're not good. You know, we don't need that. We're not that bad. And I was like, Hey, we've hit a stuck place and I think we need help getting unstuck.

[00:46:38] And that is a really great way to sell it to your service member. We are stuck and we need help getting unstuck. But you know, there are ways you can be anonymous. It's the military family, life counselors chaplains don't have to report anything hot military. One source. There's lots of ways you can be anonymous, but get in there and get that help.

[00:46:58] Sometimes for us, we've just had to go like three or four times and it helps get us unstuck and we're back on a good trajectory and we're back on our rising stock market. Yeah. I, I think, I think we're getting better at Taking away the stigma around therapy and counseling and things like that. And it's just like, I mean, just think about like when you're, you're talking to your bestie and they're making this choice and you're like, Oh my God, do you not see?

[00:47:25] No, you can't, blah, blah. And because on the outside looking in, you can see a lot more than you can that you get your blinders on when you're in a situation. And so that's what a counselor is. They can stand on the outside and be like, okay, well, I see what you're saying. I'm I also see what you're saying.

[00:47:39] I think this and sometimes you just need that outside perspective to help give you right a different perspective. I think that that I think we've got to get better at letting that go. And I think the military for the military member, I think it's come a long way. I think there's still a long way to go.

[00:47:56] But you know, that's a command climate thing that I really is gotta be a top down situation. Unfortunately, I think it's better in some branches of our military than others. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. And then so as you were going through your tips, I thought about when my husband, I remember him coming home from a deployment and saying to me that he felt like he, I didn't need him anymore because I was like, you know, thrown in headfirst into the military life.

[00:48:31] And I was like, Okay, let's go like I'm gonna and it wasn't pretty by by any means, but I'm like, I, I'm going to do this. I'm going to figure it out. Like, that's just kind of the attitude that I have. And it was very humbling to me to hear him say that because I don't want him to feel that way. Right. I do need him and I do want him as my partner.

[00:48:51] And so. For them to be like, well, I feel like you don't need me anymore. And, and again, like you were saying, that's very much a pride pill that you have to swallow where it's like, okay, I, I can do this myself, but at the same time, like they're your partner. And so you've got to. you know, figure out how to, how to make that work the best that you can.

[00:49:12] And we can't overwhelm them either. Because they are tired, they're jet lagged. They probably didn't get a lot of sleep for the last several days coming home. They're on a completely different time schedule. They have been at war. And they're, You know, I mean, think about in the ships, right?

[00:49:29] They're all the bunks all together. Right. So they're probably just like super tired. So we need to recognize that and give them grace and not expect them to jump back in right before they left and that they're, they're dealing with a lot. Yeah. But also I, I felt like you just ease them back in like, Hey, could, could you do this?

[00:49:46] Right. And. Full disclosure, I remember one time I gave my, my little baby to my husband and ask him to dress her for church. And like, he did it all wrong. And you know what, like an example, like it say that was happening right after deployment. Like, you just let it go. Like, it doesn't matter. I just think we have to just set ourself up for an expectation of like, Hey, I'm going to not expect perfection and let them back in, but I'm also not going to expect them to be able to jump in and do all the things as if they haven't just been doing this major military mission with the mission mindset.

[00:50:28] Yeah. Yeah. You know, not, I mean, it's an adjustment for them. It's a huge adjustment for them. It's an adjustment for us, but like, they've not been around kids crying and kids hungry and kids tripping and falling and crying. Like all that's all new. Right. And, and they've been like, you know, sometimes they've been experiencing trauma at war, right?

[00:50:48] So So Yeah. We just have to be flexible, but bring, but we have to be conscious to say, I'm going to let them back in. Maybe today I'll let them do preparing a meal for the kids. You know, maybe, maybe in a couple of days, we're going to add bathing the kids, you know, what are we going to do? And, and I'm going to.

[00:51:08] Ask, go ask them, Hey, what do you think about whatever? But here's the thing that I've learned. You can't ask them, what do you think about whatever, and then they give you your opinion and you blow it off. Done that. I'm terrible at that. I do that all the time. It's so bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At least if you're not going to take their advice, explain why.

[00:51:30] Right. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, we just, we just gotta be careful. I'm not saying walk on eggshells, but just remember, this is our partner. This is the person that we. Yeah. Yeah. You know, most likely created or adopted these children with, right? This person has my good intentions and I have their good intentions and let's try to not be enemies, but say, how can we get together?

[00:51:51] My husband says all the time, he's like, same team. Remember like something I'll make, but whatever. That's so good. Same team. We're on the same team here. And I'm like, Oh my God, I know, but ah, you know, that's so good. I love that. It's just a little reminder to kind of like calm down a little. Yeah. And, and to not always, and it's hard, especially cause I, I have a temper and so I will just snap.

[00:52:18] Right. And he's like, wow, Whoa, same team. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Sorry. And you kind of got to get that grounding moment. And then one of the other things that I wanted to To to touch on is the the trying not to resent your spouse for their schedule and and throw it back in their face. And that one can be really hard because I feel like Often, right?

[00:52:48] You have a schedule. You have things that you're doing. You have things that you want to do, and then something comes up and they're not home for dinner when they said they were going to be home for dinner or they're whatever the case might be. And there can be resentment. I don't feel like I'm important.

[00:53:01] Whatever. And, and I feel like that is one of those aspects of, of the military marriage that's different from other, that makes us unique is that our spouse often does not have the capacity to choose us over. They probably want to, they would rather be home. They would rather do this than the other thing, but they just, they, they can't, they have to go do this other thing.

[00:53:28] And so when. One of the things that my husband said to me when we were coming to our job here is the job that he's in now is very high tempo at times. And there's going to be times because one of our things that we really like to do when we report to a new duty station is let's go do all the things.

[00:53:47] Like let's go be a tourist. Let's go make the best of where we are at the time, go do all the things. But we are going to have to consider The op tempo of the job that he's at, right. We're planning these things. And he said to me that he really needs for me to not. Make that harder for him, right? Not so, so I try, I'm trying very hard to like, Hey, this summer when the girls get out of school, we're going to go out to this national park and we're going to do, and I had like this big, great trip that we're going to plan.

[00:54:21] Well, guess what? It didn't work out. They can't, they can't, we, we can't do that. There's something, and I'm like, and, and. And I have this mental attitude from here because he asked me to be understanding in this that, well, okay, well, we're here for three summers. We'll push it to next summer and do it there instead.

[00:54:41] And I think that if, I think it's really important for our service members to be given that and it's really hard to do, but if you can have that conversation and the front side of like, I need you to not give me a really hard time when. You know, we can't go on the vacation at the exact time that you want to go on.

[00:55:02] We can't do that then because of this. And and I think that that helps alleviate a lot of the other stuff when you're like, okay, I know I'm going to have to be extra open and understanding in this situation, you know? So, yeah. And I wrote a whole blog post on this recently. It's how I overcame bitterness and resentment as a military spouse.

[00:55:23] Oh, good. Yeah. Perfect. But I think. We had two season, no, three, three seasons two years each where my husband was just working a tremendous amount. Right. And I think one of the things I learned, and I'm not going to go over the whole list. There was, again, I like the number 10. So yeah but one of the things I think you have to do is you have to get some extra help to help not have that resentment.

[00:55:55] Cause You know, mine, it was two years at my husband, basically high ops tempo working all the time, long hours, everything was unpredictable. So, you know, during that season, I, well, different, different things I did, but one season I got a babysitter once a week just to give me a break. Love my kids, but you know, other, another season, I had a housekeeper to help just, you know, getting some help.

[00:56:22] And I, I think prioritizing having other people to help fill your, your need for personal connection, like not putting all that pressure on our spouse because there are going to be seasons like that. Yeah. And we have to prioritize self care. We have to do something that is life giving for us, whatever that is for you.

[00:56:43] Maybe you'd like to read, give yourself time to read, schedule that in. It's a priority. Prioritizing yourself is not selfish. It is enabling you to be a better spouse, a better mom, a better friend. And if you give yourself life, like, so. In the beginning when I had little kids and my husband worked nights Oh, actually we had more than two times.

[00:57:06] So we had these periods where he wasn't around for, but anyway you know, I could be bitter about the fact that I didn't see my husband Monday through Friday. Or I realized I had to do things to get out, to be around people. My kids were little you know, if I just stayed at home with them, I was just negative yeah.

[00:57:28] so negative. So I had to find something that was going to fill my tank, you know, and get out of the house to do that. So all my expectation is not heaped on my husband under a high ops tempo. But yeah, self care by getting that babysitter once a week, it enabled me to be a better mom because my stress level was lower.

[00:57:53] I thought initially that it would be selfish for me to spend that money. You know, and, Oh, why do I need that? And all I can just push through, I'm strong, I'm independent. No, I'm a better mommy when I take care of myself. So during that season, that money that we spent to get that babysitter once a week for me to be around other adults who were not yelling and screaming and fighting, you know, they were other adults that could have a conversation that was so beneficial and then enabled me the rest of the time.

[00:58:25] To be more patient, to be more loving, but also not to put these unreasonable expectations on my husband. Yeah. And there's lots of other things in there too, but don't feel guilty about investing some of the money that your, your husband's, you know, or your service members making to invest in some self care for you.

[00:58:45] Because unfortunately there are seasons where we do have to take a large portion of the load and I think it's okay to spend some of that money and what you are doing is you're making an investment. You're making an investment in your parenting and you're making an investment in your marriage. Yeah.

[00:59:03] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, agreed. Yep. Agreed. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Okay. Well, Beth, I really appreciate your time and all of the tips that you shared with us. I think that's great. And make sure that I link in the show notes to that version that's on your website. And then if you want to just share where people, where can we find your book?

[00:59:23] Sir, so you can find it, Amazon, lifeway, Barnes and Noble, Christian book, all the, all the book places. It's another move God and it is a 30 day devotional easy read and I'm hearing over and over again. I feel so seen. So that's honestly the greatest gift The greatest thing that people could say because that's what I want them to do.

[00:59:46] I want them to feel seen and understood and cared for. And then I do blog at bethrunkle. com. My name is spelled B E T H R U N K L E. And then I'm on social media, Beth Runkle writes Instagram and Facebook. I do post content every week relative to the military life. So I talk about Diddy moving, reintegration, deployment marriage. 

[01:00:12] The power of prayer, how to choose faith over fear topics like that. And I bring a guest on every week. So you are hearing from military spouses who are out there doing it, living it. Beautiful. Okay, cool. I think, and that's, again, that's one of the reasons why I do the podcast, right? It's like talking to that's.

[01:00:33] It's been my favorite part of the podcast is talking to other military spouses because like nobody else gets it the way another military spouse gets it like you're like, I know I see I hear you. I've been through that a similar situation or I know exactly what you're talking about. And there's just a lot of civilian.

[01:00:51] You know, friends and family, they just, you know, as much as they want to, they just don't quite understand what the life lifestyle is like at times, right? Absolutely. And military spouse, you that are sitting there and you've just PCS and you're lonely. I want to encourage you. To get out of your house, knock on your neighbor's door, introduce yourself, or at the, you know, at something on base, introduce yourself a great, you know, a great question is, Hey, what are you enjoying about this space?

[01:01:20] Or what have you found that is fun here? You know? Yes, it's hard. It's hard to keep putting yourself out there, but when you're not doing that, you're missing out. We're missing the blessing of these amazing friendships and we need people. We need face to face communication. Loneliness is considered an epidemic in the United States right now because it is as detrimental to our physical health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

[01:01:44] So military spouse, you need other people and you got to get out there, but I know you can do it. If I did it, you can do it. Yes. A hundred percent. All right, Beth. I appreciate you so much. Thank you. All right.