Holiday Travel Tips for Military Families

[00:00:00] Alison: Hello, hello and welcome back to the show today. I wanted to talk about a topic that I've been seeing more and more because the holidays are just around the corner and I thought that it would be a good topic for us to discuss and that is Should you travel home for the holidays if you do not live near your family and what should you do if you are getting the guilt trip from your family to come visit, but it might not necessarily be what you want to do or what your family wants to do?

[00:00:37] Alison: So that's what we're going to talk about first. And then we're going to get into some holiday travel tips, just different things that you can do around the holidays. If your family is there. Or if your family is not nearby traveling we're going to talk about deployments and what to do, how to navigate through deployment.

[00:01:03] Alison: If over the holidays, how can we help our kids navigate through deployment over the holidays? And, ideas for like technology and different things that we can do and just some different kind of mindset shifts around Where you might be for the holidays that might not be home and it might just be different from what your usual traditions are and how can we embrace that stuff?

[00:01:29] Alison: Okay. So first off, let's talk about going home for the holidays and feeling excited about going guilt or pressure to go home and visit family when that might not be something that you really want to do. My best advice for that is number one, it's a very personal decision about what you and your family decide is best for you guys.

[00:01:57] Alison: But I feel like for my family specifically, my family unit is me and my husband and our two daughters. That's our unit and we decide together what is best for us in different situations and the family out, right? So we are pretty close with our family. We've got a really good relationship with our family and they come and visit us a lot.

[00:02:28] Alison: The girls always go and spend a couple of weeks at the summer at grandma's house. Seeing all the grandparents and stuff then. So we, we don't have the kind of animosity stuff that I have heard a lot of people have are dealing with like, you know, our, my parents or in laws or whoever are expecting us to come home for the holidays and we've got a family of five and we've got dogs and our kids are young and why can't they come to us?

[00:02:56] Alison: It would be so much easier than having to schlep our entire family to, you know, grandparents houses or whatever when they're retired and they're right. That puts in a whole new thing too, because our lifestyle is. tricky, right? It's hard. It's challenging. There's a lot of parts of it that that really suck.

[00:03:16] Alison: And being away from your family, especially over the holidays is really hard. It's really challenging. And maybe you don't want to be with your family for the holidays and to feel that kind of guilt or pressure that you need to go is something that. We don't subscribe to and our family. So again, we make decisions with the, with our core unit family in mind and how it affects the rest of the family.

[00:03:47] Alison: This is a really hard for me to talk about because I am not in this position where I feel like I've got to go, we've got to do this. And nobody ever comes out to see us. But I know that there's a lot of families that are experiencing situations like that and it can be, it can create a lot of hostility.

[00:04:03] Alison: And unnecessary drama and stress. And so my best advice is to really sit down with your core unit family, and maybe your kids are really young and so they're not really going to play a part in it, but like you and your spouse for sure, and just have a conversation about how you're feeling and what is going to be best for your core family, not the extended family.

[00:04:29] Alison: And is it something that you want to do? And if you and your spouse are on completely separate pages, I saw. In one of the military groups that I'm in the other day it was the, the wife, her husband is active duty. And, and so this, this military spouse was frustrated because her, they were getting ready to PCS and it was close to the holidays.

[00:04:55] Alison: And the family wanted, was expecting them to come and visit. before they left on their PCS. And she really didn't want to go. And she was saying that, you know, we've been stationed here where they were for three years and no one has come to visit them. And now they really don't have the money financially to buy plane tickets or gas or hotels or whatever, because even if you don't fly even if you just drive, it's still gas and hotels and everything else.

[00:05:30] Alison: And then also the complexities of if you've got small kids trying to take Santa across the country to go visit other people when your kids are small, that's hard. That's a big ask. That's a big ask for, for family. So I really, I really wish that. Family members and, and I know that there are other people that listen to this show that are not necessarily in a military family, but if you are and you're on the outside of it, right?

[00:05:57] Alison: Like you're not the significant other of a military member then I think it's something that you should really think about is that's a, that's a big ask for a lot of military families, right? We, We often don't get a lot of time with our significant others because of op tempos and deployments and workups and things like that.

[00:06:21] Alison: And so travel and time off specifically is really limited. And so when you do finally get some time off, do you want to spend that time schlepping? To wherever the case might be, or would you rather go do something with your core family and You know, make memories doing some, I don't know, go on a trip that's like a bucket list trip for you instead of flying back to Ohio to visit your family.

[00:06:53] Alison: I, and I, I don't want to make it sound like I don't know. I'm trying, gosh, how do you be politically correct and also share your honest opinion at the same time? I guess like the nuts and bolts of it is, is is I really encourage you to just think about, be selfish. Be selfish and think about you and your significant other and your core family that lives with you and moves with you all the time.

[00:07:19] Alison: And what do you guys want? And if what you guys want is to travel across the country to go visit family for the holidays, then that's what you should do. If you and your core family. really would rather do something else, but you're feeling pressure and guilt to go and see family. Screw that. Let it go.

[00:07:37] Alison: And do you, do you, boo, you do you, you gotta, you let that stuff go. You gotta let that stuff go. And for anybody that's listening to the show that is not a military spouse or active duty military member, I highly encourage you. If you have anybody in your family who is in the military, To be understanding of the limited time that they have together again, especially if they're in an op tempo where they're gone a lot and deploying and things like that, like that is not fair to ask them to come and visit and, you know, put the burden on them.

[00:08:13] Alison: And the, and then the other part of that too is that if you have someone who is friend, family, whatever, that is in the military that does make the effort to come back to wherever hometown might be to visit. Go see them. Do not ask them to come and meet you. Hey, will you come to my house or whatever? 45 minutes?

[00:08:34] Alison: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is where we're going to be. We would love to see you come on over like this. You know what I mean? You gotta give yourself those parameters. It's a military family and then people on the outside looking in. Be, be mindful of the, what you're asking of that military family and knowing that they might be coming in from, again, not spending a lot of time together as a family already.

[00:09:03] Alison: So just make it as easy on them as possible. Okay, that was kind of long and drawn out. Sorry, I apologize for that. Okay. So, something that you can do if you have decided, okay, we want to go see family for the holidays and maybe your family is kind of spread out. So like, for example, our family is all in like the greater DC area.

[00:09:25] Alison: And so, hey, this is where I'm going to be. communicating with everybody that's around there. Come and see us. It's an open door policy. Come where, you know, come in, come and visit. We would love to see you. Or maybe making a big event somewhere. Maybe it's at a restaurant and everybody's going to meet at this restaurant or some kind of gathering of some sort where you can see a lot of people at one time without having to like schlep all over the place because that's like, The last thing you want to do is, is spend however long it's going to take you to travel to some place.

[00:10:02] Alison: And then once you get to that place, you're just ping ponging all over the place to go visit a ton of people. That's, that's not, that's not a good time either. So really trying to condense down and make like bigger events so that you can see more people at one time. And really kind of get the most bang for your buck without having to, again, flit around all over the place.

[00:10:21] Alison: Okay, so talking about traveling to your family for for the holidays, there's a lot of discounts that military have that I wanted to just kind of highlight for you. Something to keep in mind when you're traveling for the holidays is, you know, depending on your significant other's unit or op tempo or, you know, what, what their jobs might be.

[00:10:47] Alison: There's, there's a Always the chance that their leave is going to get canceled and something comes up and they have to do whatever right and every job is a little bit different. Like there's some words like that's never going to happen and there's others where that's a really strong possibility that you're that you're that leave might get canceled and.

[00:11:05] Alison: Plans have to change at the last minute. So with that in mind if you are going to travel and buy plane tickets or hotel reservations or things like that just I you know really think about getting I really hate the Travel insurance because I feel like I haven't had to use it. I guess that's not true I have had to use it and they didn't it was like in their gray area And so it didn't get covered and I was like, well, that's lame.

[00:11:29] Alison: So that's just That's just my experience. But travel insurance or, you know, a lot of airlines and things have flexible tickets where you have a little bit of a longer window when you can transfer, transfer or, you know, switch your ticket or cancel or things like that. And then the same thing with hotels.

[00:11:48] Alison: Look at the cancellation policy. Maybe not the best case or best idea to do an Airbnb because they're usually their cancellation policies are a lot less lenient than hotels. So just, just keep that in mind is trying to give yourself really generous windows for if cancellations or things like that come up.

[00:12:08] Alison: Some of the discounts that are available, I'm just going to list off a few of them. There's a lot, so really always ask. It's, it's, it never hurts. to ask if they offer a military discount because, because if, you know, if you don't ask the question, the answer is always no. So always ask the question. You never know what they're going to say.

[00:12:29] Alison: But for airlines specifically, United Airlines offers a 5 percent discount to active duty military personal personnel and their dependents on domestic flights. Delta Airlines offers military discounts on both domestic and international flights, but sometimes the eligibility and discounts vary based on routes.

[00:12:47] Alison: You need to really check with them for hotels and resorts. Marriott offers special military rates for the personnel and their families. Hilton also provides discounted rates for military families . Car Rentals Enterprise offers discounts for military for active duty military and their families through their military leisure travel page.

[00:13:08] Alison: So you have to specifically go to that page. Hertz Rental Car provides discounted rates and benefits for military personnel, including free additional drivers and waived young renter fees. So that's good to know. Theme parks, Walt Disney World and Disneyland offer special military discounts. I can't imagine that you haven't heard about that.

[00:13:28] Alison: That's usually one of the big ones. MWR go to them for your tickets. And then utilizing MWR, gosh, I'm not sure if it's an MW. Is it, is it called an MWR hotel? I don't know, but like shades of green and Disney. There's lots of, there's a couple of different resorts that the military has. And one of them is at Disney World. 

[00:13:51] Alison: Universal Studios offers military discounts on tickets and vacation packages for cruise lines, Royal Caribbean, Carnival and Norwegian all offer military discounts on select sailings and state rooms. And then a lot of local attractions and museums. country offer military discounts. So it's worth checking individual websites or contacting them directly to find out information about discounts. 

[00:14:18] Alison: And then always thinking about utilizing if you're going to be near a base, you can stay in the, the hotels that they have on base and also if you have the capability looking at space, a flights space, a flights are a little bit more challenging again, you know, we had Stephanie on from pop and smoke last year.

[00:14:43] Alison: I want to bring her back on because that was incredibly, it's like one of the number one shows that we've had was that was that space, a travel episode that we did. So I'd like to bring her back on to talk more about that. But Flying Space A is always an option, except for it is a lot more challenging to do.

[00:15:00] Alison: You really need to be flexible with your date, with your dates and your time and your travel to be able to utilize Space A the best that you can. If you have really specific and tight, a tight timeline, then you're going to want to fly Commercial because space a is just going to be it's just not reliable.

[00:15:16] Alison: You just don't know what you're gonna be able to get so and then the other one is govex and ideami are they're online platforms that have discounts on all kinds of stuff You can buy merchandise, but they also have travel tickets and things like that So those are also two places that you can check but again You know, just remember that discounts, they vary, right, based on availability, on the dates that you want to go, the location that you want to go.

[00:15:40] Alison: So, really a good idea to, to check directly with the, you know, respective companies that you, or organizations that you might want to use to find out the current detailed information that they have for available discounts for military families. And then just, you know, keep in mind that some discounts might require proof of military service and different booking procedures and things like that and, you know, eligibility criteria and whatnot.

[00:16:04] Alison: So just, you know, keep up on that stuff. And then, I've already recorded the interview, but it hasn't come out yet. It's gonna, it'll be out in a few weeks, but it was with if you are on Instagram, I highly encourage you follow camouflage and perks. She is a military travel hacker. So she has a lot of tips on how can you.

[00:16:28] Alison: you know, use points really strategically and things like that. So I highly recommend she's, she shares a lot of really great travel advice for military families on that camouflage and perks. I'll make sure that I linked that in the show notes. Okay, so that's travel. So then let's kind of talk a little bit about.

[00:16:44] Alison: Some of the challenges if you are stationed away from home. So some of the things to, to kind of keep in mind that are helpful, especially if you're a newer military family or establishing your family is. to really think about when you're coming into the holidays, what traditions are important for you and what do you want to continue?

[00:17:10] Alison: What do you want to maybe start? And so that's something that we have done in our family. And so we have a really good established routine of this is what we do for these specific holidays and it doesn't matter where we're living. We still do those same things and it can be as so. Okay. So for example, for Thanksgiving, for our family.

[00:17:35] Alison: really been that big of a deal. We almost never have family come visit us for Thanksgiving, which is okay. So we typically will do like cinnamon rolls for breakfast and then we'll watch the parade maybe depending on what time zone we're in, if we can. And we like to watch Christmas movies, kind of play games.

[00:17:56] Alison: And then we do like a very small Turkey, like traditional kind of Turkey dinner for dinner. And like, or we have like little appetizers during the day and then like the traditional kind of dinner, but just with a little teeny tiny little baby turkey and that's kind of our Thanksgiving. So that's what we do no matter where we are right or it doesn't matter where in the country we are.

[00:18:15] Alison: That's those are kind of always our traditions for that specific day. And we have the same thing for Easter and we have the same thing for Christmas. Like we have specific things that we always do every year. And I think that having those routines. Especially when you bring kids into the family those just having those things again, no matter where you are, are really grounding.

[00:18:36] Alison: And so especially if you end up being stationed overseas, right? Just because you're overseas, you can still have these these different traditions and things of where you are. But one of the things to think about if you are stationed OCONUS or overseas outside of the continental United States is what that stands for. Look at where you are. Where are you in the country? Where are you in the world? Are there different, , cultural experiences that you could take advantage of where you might be stationed? , maybe there's a different religion that celebrates in a different way that you can, embrace.

[00:19:09] Alison: What they or just even learn about what those different traditions might be in the culture where you are could be a really great experience and a really cool way to navigate through the holiday season, because again, if you're stationed overseas, that's really challenging to be, , that far away from family can be really hard and, and just not, and surrounded by what we're used to, right?

[00:19:33] Alison: As far as food is concerned and just the culture and the everything but a way to kind of circumvent that a little bit is to really embrace the local culture. What do they do that's over the holidays that you can kind of get involved in and maybe bring in some new traditions that you might carry with your family as you move through that you might really like from, from overseas.

[00:19:57] Alison: Okay, so switching gears just a little bit. What do you do if your significant other is deployed while over the holidays. That is very challenging. I went through quite a few deployments. They always seem to be over the holidays, like it never fails. They're always over the holidays. 

[00:20:23] Alison: I cannot speak to doing that with kids because when Michael was deploying frequently like that, it was just him and I and and usually what I would do again when we didn't have kids is I would just go home. I would go home for the for the holiday so that as much as I could outside of my work schedule, just so that I could have that little bit of normalcy, that little bit of home, a little bit of comfort.

[00:20:49] Alison: But, you know, maybe your work schedule doesn't allow it. And so that's a really great time to really tap into your friends and your local network. If your significant other is deployed, do they have a spouse group or something that you could be a part of? And then, maybe there's other families that are also going to be staying on post or wherever you might be while they're gone.

[00:21:12] Alison: And you guys can be each other's family for that holiday and spend it together with another military family. And that's, again, That's also something to look at if you are living on a military installation. Take a look around, right? Is your neighbor couple houses down or whatever? Do you know that their spouse is gone?

[00:21:30] Alison: Invite them over, right? And reach out to them and say, hey, you know, I just wanted to let you know This is what we're doing for this holiday. You're welcome to come over and I know that that can be super awkward but I really feel like when you are in the space of deployment and You're on your own. It is You got to just get over it.

[00:21:51] Alison: You got to get over that and put yourself out there Because sitting at home by yourself on a holiday is just whoo while your significant other is gone That is not an enjoyable time not enjoyable time. Okay, so if you're if you're significant others, okay So first, okay, let's we're gonna do two things So let's first talk about some of the cool ways that you can technology wise, app wise that you can use to keep in touch with your service member or your family if you are not geographically close together.

[00:22:26] Alison: Right? So I think we've all heard, right? Skype, zoom FaceTime via Facebook messenger. Those are all great video calls that you can use to be able to actually see each other. I mean, you can even have A laptop set up with a zoom call like literally all day with each other with your family and maybe you're not together and you're sitting down in California with your family to have Thanksgiving dinner and they're sitting down in wherever Ohio is the state that's coming to mind for the most today for some reason and you guys can sit down and have Thanksgiving together over a video chat.

[00:23:03] Alison: So that's always an option. The app Marco Polo. is a really great one. Allows you to send video messages that can be watched and responded to at any time. So that one is really convenient if you are not in the same time zone as your significant other or your family. 

[00:23:20] Alison: Another one, again, if you're If you're geographically really far apart or if you're through a deployment, TikTok and Instagram, they're obviously, , entertainment kind of stuff. But if you have a significant other, if you've got kids at home and your significant other is going to be gone for the holidays and whatnot, if you have an Instagram account that you can just at any time post, you know, little updates or moments during the day or a funny video or whatever, it's just a, an easy way to keep in contact and, and Just keep that connection, right?

[00:23:53] Alison: And then another thing that I hadn't really thought about, but can be a really good idea is if you have Google Calendar or cozy or different you know, calendar type apps, you can then Put everything into that app and your significant other who may be deployed or geographically separated can also have that.

[00:24:13] Alison: So then they kind of know where, where are you? What are you doing? And what is your day look like? And it just again, keeping that whatever connection that we can have, especially when they're deployed is really challenging. So whatever connection that you can have, yeah. You know, take advantage, right? Okay.

[00:24:31] Alison: So then moving back to okay. So kids, how do we help our kids specifically if we are going through a deployment or a geographical separation? Over the holidays because you know, holidays are really important for what their holidays are really important for adults too, but really important for kids in most situations.

[00:24:54] Alison: So just some ideas for helping kids through the holidays is especially if you are significant others going to be deployed is really open communication. And again, you know, your kid better than anybody else in my family, specifically, I have been an over communicator from. The jump from the jump. So I really over almost over explain all of the things.

[00:25:21] Alison: And so my girls really like to know what's happening, what's going on, what's the plan, what's the schedule. And so if your kid is in that same place, it might make them feel, give them a little bit more comfort to know. What is happening, right? What's going on? This is this is where mommy or daddy is. And this is what they're doing loosely, right?

[00:25:48] Alison: And this is kind of their schedule. And this is the plan. They're supposed to be gone for this long and blah, you know, just really openly communicating with them and sharing. the process with them just so that they have like some, I don't know, some skin in the game. I don't know what the right kind of word is for that.

[00:26:05] Alison: But, and you know, also having that open communication where your kids are encouraged to express how they're feeling, right? How are you feeling about deployment? And just giving them a safe space to share their emotions without any judgment. And then communication can be really challenging depending on where your significant other is and what they're doing.

[00:26:28] Alison: So, as trying to facilitate as best you can regular communication with the deployed parent, and that might be letters, it might be emails, it might be video calls, it might be, , care packages, whatever, maybe trying to set up scheduled times for, to talk to each other to kind of create that sense of consistency for the kids.

[00:26:49] Alison: Like, okay, we're going to talk to daddy at after dinner on Tuesday or, you know what I'm saying? Like whatever that, and again. it's really hard, right? Because there may be their schedules changing or maybe they're gonna be out of communication for a while or it's just kind of sporadic. And you know, that's something that you have to try to explain to your kids and help them understand, which I know can be really hard.

[00:27:13] Alison: But if there is, if there is a way to have that consistency, then have that. And, if it's not video call, then maybe it's an email. Okay, it's almost time for bed. Let's open, let's look at the email from, , from mommy or daddy for today or , whatever that is for you.

[00:27:26] Alison: And then maybe creating new traditions that involve the deployed parents. For instance, having a special video call during a holiday meal or. Creating a memory book where everybody contributes like messages or drawings or just little, you know, anecdotes or like, this is what happened, little stories or whatever for the absent parent just to help them feel like they're still there because, it's hard on me.

[00:27:58] Alison: The families that are left behind and that are home, but I think it's also 

[00:28:04] Alison: Important to remember how hard it also has to be for the parent that's missing it on the other side So just kind of keeping that in mind and how can we still? Make them and help them feel like they're involved when they're not there because it's hard on us But it's also really hard on them too. And just keeping that in mind again, we talked about Community support.

[00:28:27] Alison: Does your, does your unit have a parent group or you know, just a family group where there's other kids whose, whose parents are on the, in the same unit and you guys, they can kind of commiserate with each other or play with each other or just, have events or gatherings or things, especially during the holidays, just to kind of You know, again, the sense of belonging and understanding, , and I, I feel, , we're in the same boat here, right?

[00:28:52] Alison: Our, our daddies are both gone at the same time. Our mommies are both gone at the same time and then trying to keep a routine. , as best as you can. predictability structure, right? That's always really important for kids. And especially when there's that uncertainty factor in there with one parent being gone.

[00:29:10] Alison: And again, I know that's like, that sounds great, but sometimes it's just not reality and I get it. So this is just, you know, doing the best you can. If you can keep a routine, the, you know, great. And then maybe we're going to celebrate early or we're going to celebrate late. So maybe they're leaving on deployment at the beginning of December.

[00:29:34] Alison: And so you're going to celebrate, celebrate Christmas Day or Hanukkah or whatever holiday you celebrate. prior to them leaving and then or maybe they're coming home the second week in January and you're going to do Christmas in January instead of Christmas in Christmas in December. So, you know, feel free to, to, to move that, right?

[00:29:53] Alison: Celebrate earlier, celebrate late and then. For again, for the kiddos engage in distractions, get them maybe volunteer find a group or club that you can do, maybe pick up a new hobby, things like that. Different types of outlets for kids to get their feelings out. Maybe it's art, maybe it's music, maybe it's journaling, maybe it's whatever is going to help them process their emotions.

[00:30:24] Alison: Just seeing what that is. Again, you know, your kids better than anybody else. So what is going to help them? And then , again, sharing with them explaining the deployment process, obviously in an age appropriate manner, , why is the parent away, , the importance of their work and things like that can sometimes help.

[00:30:43] Alison: Sometimes it doesn't matter. Sometimes their kids, cause I know that might've done this before too, like, I don't care. I just want my daddy home. That happens. And that's fair. And that's valid. You can, right. That's okay. You can feel that way. I know it sucks. I'm sorry. And it's just, sometimes it's just being that listening ear for your kids. And then really doing the best that you can to have that support network for yourself, whether that's, , family, friends, mentors, whatever that might be to help yourself and your family as much as you can. And then again, for those people that are not in an active duty military family and you know, an active duty military family, look at how are they doing?

[00:31:30] Alison: Is, you know, mommy or daddy gone? and they maybe need some help and just reach out and insert yourself there. Because a lot of times it's really hard for us to ask for help and to say that we're lonely and we need some friends, right? So you can also extend the olive branch from the other side as well. 

[00:31:53] Alison: Always be mindful that. , professional help might be needed and that's okay. If there's, there is, I feel like we're getting a little bit better as a son as a society in talking about having therapy and counselors and things like that. There is, there should be zero shame in that, right?

[00:32:13] Alison: Because we, we have a lot of challenges that we face and don't always have the tools that we need to be able to navigate certain situations, right? And sometimes we really need that outside perspective of someone on the outside looking in that can help us navigate challenging things to help us realize patterns in our own behavior, or maybe patterns and other people's behavior that we are not seeing that is not helpful to us and things like that.

[00:32:47] Alison: So I highly, highly recommend reaching out and talking to somebody if you need it. And there are so many resources that are free. And I feel like Tricare has done. Really opened up the availability for people to get help in that way. So military one source is a great resource for that. If you're, if you have 13 years or older is the age for kids, 13 years or older, they offer free.

[00:33:22] Alison: I think it's like six sessions or something like that and they will, you know, talk to you. What are you looking for? What is your, what, what is happening? What do you need help with? And then they match you up with someone. And again, you have these sessions and then also there's a lot of resources on base with chaplains and with the, you know, family readiness center, whatever.

[00:33:45] Alison: It's a different for each branch of branch of service also offers counseling and things like that. And and again, out in town, you can get. So even if you're prime, you can still go out in town and get help. You just have to, it's, it's, it sucks. It's a lot of work to find to find a counselor who is good.

[00:34:11] Alison: So reading those Google reviews, this is someone that you want you to see or your kid to see. And then do they accept are in TRICARE and then are they accepting new patients? Right? When you add all of these things together, are they accepting new patients? And then you add all of those things together.

[00:34:25] Alison: It makes it really challenging, but it is so important and so helpful. again, if you're really struggling with something or your kid is struggling with something to get them help as early and as much as they need it. Okay. All right. That was a lot of stuff. So again, lots of tips for navigating, , the holidays with, , in our military lifestyle.

[00:34:48] Alison: But again, from, , from the, from the jump is. Don't let your family guilt trip you into coming to visit if it's not something that you want to do. Okay? You do you and you, they will, they'll get over it or they can, they can come and visit you. But if it is not something that you're feeling, it's not something that you want to do, then don't do it.

[00:35:09] Alison: All right. Until next time. I'll talk to you guys soon.