Is homeschooling the right choice for your military family? With special guest Natalie Mack

00:00:00] Today on the show, we have Natalie Mack and Natalie is really big in the homeschooling community, especially if you're in the greater DC area, probably would know who you are, right? Like you're kind of the champion over there. So so Natalie, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:15] Natalie: I'm happy to have you here.

[00:00:17] Natalie: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Really honored to be a guest. So thank you. 

[00:00:23] Alison: Awesome. Well, I, so I started this show. A while ago, we're like 80 some episodes in now, which is crazy. And when I, when I, yeah, when I initially started the show, one of the first things that I wrote down as a topic idea was homeschooling, because I feel like it's very prevalent in the military community.

[00:00:40] Alison: I feel like it's something that a lot of families end up gravitating towards just because that's one of the big stressors. As you're moving and PCSing, especially if you do it frequently, is your kids in school and the continuity. And then this state has these you know, requirements. And then this state has this one.

[00:00:57] Alison: And then my kid feels like they were like, A OK in this school. And now we're at a different school district and they're way behind in everything. And it's like, hold on a second. Yeah, it's really hard. So Natalie is going to, you're going to share with us your story. You have successfully gotten five kids, which 

[00:01:16] Natalie: is insane.

[00:01:16] Natalie: That's insane. Well, you still have one at home, right? I still have one at home. Yeah, you still have one at home.

[00:01:21] Alison: But the other ones are, they're in college. They're doing their thing. They're living their best life. So let's just start with what has your military life looked like?

[00:01:29] Alison: And homeschooling part for after that.

[00:01:33] Natalie: Yeah. So in short, my husband was a Navy chaplain. He retired 18 months ago. I wasn't quite ready, but now that we are on the other side, I celebrate it and I say, okay, he does not have to have two cell phones like he did throughout the whole career. And he served for 34 years.

[00:01:54] Natalie: So I always say we serve to family serve. I'm a hundred percent. I'm a huge advocate of military families, military spouses, just the whole idea of serving our country, and people say, thank you for your service. I don't think they really have an understanding of the depth of what they are thanking us for because There are a lot of mountains and valleys, right?

[00:02:18] Natalie: A lot of mountaintops and valleys, but I'm grateful for the 34 years and we had an incredible journey as active duty and now on the retired side, things are still continuing in different ways, but it's still really good. Yeah. 

[00:02:34] Alison: Awesome. So, and okay, so we'll kind of get into this a little bit more as you as we talk about it, but you guys literally have lived all over the world too.

[00:02:43] Natalie: Yes, yes, we have lived. Yeah. So, I will say real quickly After college we, we, we dated in high school, husband and I, well, I should go back. We met in high school, so we are high school sweethearts. There's a story there, but we dated through college and he was ROTC. So he was commissioned after college graduation.

[00:03:05] Natalie: He graduated from Morehouse College and I attended Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia. And he graduated and he was commissioned Army Infantry. So we did about seven years army. We were overseas in Germany at the time and bought Kursnack 1st armored division. And he accepted his calling to the ministry felt very led and convicted to get out, which was really crazy then.

[00:03:28] Natalie: Cause he was doing really well. And I was. Loving all the cushy life in Germany and all the travel and everything. Right. And so, but he got out and long story short, he came, he came back home. We came back home. He went to seminary did Johnson and Johnson medical sales for about six and a half years again.

[00:03:45] Natalie: And he and I looked at each other and said, wow, civilian life is not what we really want to raise our kids. And we really want to go back into the military. for, you know, even with the some of the struggles and sacrifice, you know, there are kids who play outside on installations, right? And so we decided and he went back in as a Navy chaplain.

[00:04:04] Natalie: And that was about when we began our homeschooling journey. So that has been year 23 this year out of the 34 years of service, 20 year 23 for homeschooling. But we have lived as a result with the army. So we had several assignments from Fort Irwin California in T. C. To Fort Huachuca to buy quits.

[00:04:24] Natalie: Not Germany. Got out, came back in his Navy Camp Pendleton. First tour duty with the Marine Corps. Little Creek. For U. S. S. Harry Truman carrier command chaplain at Little Creek chaplain practicum, which kind of had him between Portsmouth V. A. I mean, support some of in the V. A. In Hampton and then Naples, Italy.

[00:04:46] Natalie: We got that. Eastern North Carolina with the Marines again, Camp Lejeune and New River. And then he was chaplain at UCIS Uniformed Services here on the campus of Bethesda. And then he did a Geo Bachelor tour, which was our only one. And he went to Pascagoula for a new ship, Pascagoula, Mississippi, which ended up being home ported in San Diego, USS Tripoli.

[00:05:11] Natalie: So in all of that, we have lived. so many different places. And our kids are have been so positively impacted by all of that relocation, their ability to pivot and to adjust with all different people, different environments I've seen. I really I really feel that that's because of that military life.

[00:05:35] Alison: I love that because I, I feel like, cause my kids are younger. So my daughters are 10 and 11 and that is one of, honestly, and I, and I know that there are a lot of other military spouses that I've talked to as well. That's one of our biggest concerns, right? Is that is how is our lifestyle of moving every two to three years affecting our kids?

[00:05:51] Alison: And, and so I think it's, it's refreshing to hear, Hey, my kids are on the other side and man, they are so much stronger for it for it. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:06:00] Natalie: I love that. It, you know, sometimes there were there were times where, oh, of course, you don't want to leave friends that you've made at installations. And, you know, that that adjustment process is real, even in we'll talk, we can talk a little bit about it, even within the homeschool community, there is still an adjustment.

[00:06:19] Natalie: We are, you know, homeschoolers aren't changing their, their, you know, typically mom is the parent in many cases, but not always. Right. It could be a dad that is the actual homeschooling parent, but either case that person stays the same from move to move to move. Right. And so, but homeschooling communities change because you're at a new installation, you're in a new state, you possibly are OCONUS overseas.

[00:06:39] Natalie: So the environment still changes. So there is still an adjustment process. But. Overall, yeah, I really feel my kids are confident and they love to travel. They keep a suitcase packed, ready to go and they have traveled and they have our oldest is fluent in Mandarin and she's conversant in Russian.

[00:07:00] Natalie: And I talked about that in the Ted X that I did about the impact of homeschooling. Right. And so I've seen it, I have seen it and I'm not. I'm not saying that it has all been like totally positive, you know, the deployments, the hard times, you know, I'm not gonna paint this rosy, all rosy picture, you know, right?

[00:07:21] Natalie: Hard times, really hard times. But overall, it has been really good. Yeah, 

[00:07:27] Alison: I love that. That's, and that's, and that's true. I mean, obviously, but, but when you, but it's interesting, and I've talked to a couple of military kids, like grown up, right. And they both have the same thing. They both look back on it with a very positive.

[00:07:39] Alison: I mean, of course there was stuff that probably wasn't great, but they don't really remember that. So. They remember like the big things, right? Okay. So then let's dive into, okay. So it's been a hot minute 23 years ago. You started, you started your homeschooling career, but kind of take us through, cause you talked about this in your, your Ted talk that you did.

[00:07:56] Alison: What, what led you like, what kind of was going on in your life that made you say, hold on a second. Is this what made you decide to homeschool your kids? And what, what was that? What did that process look like 

[00:08:07] Natalie: for you? Yes. Well You know, I, I always knew I wanted to be a mom and I always loved education and learning.

[00:08:19] Natalie: But we were in the season where I needed to work. And of course, husband was working. And we just felt like we were noticing the, a couple of things. One, our youngest daughter was more, I think, excited to see someone else. Then I felt like she was excited to see me. It was some her childcare provider.

[00:08:43] Natalie: And, and that's good in a way, right? You want your children to be comfortable with the childcare provider. But it just felt a little bit off to me, for lack of a better word. And, and we also realized that the amount of time that we had to impact our children, like, you know, from, from getting up, getting everybody dressed and out and dropping off in different places.

[00:09:06] Natalie: And at that point, you know, we had more than one child, so they had to go different places, different. And so, and then I'm getting to work and husband's working. And then by the time we scoop everybody up in the afternoon, you know, and get home. With traffic, you know, it's, it's, it's enough to just what feed people, you know, get them bathed, you know, homework and, and get them in bed and, and everybody's still be in their right mind at the end of it.

[00:09:35] Natalie: I mean, obviously people do it successfully. So it wasn't a matter of whether we could have done it successfully. I really feel, you know, we would have been able to, it was just like, I just felt like I wanted more, I wanted more time without children and I wanted to be their primary influencer. And I just began to meet homeschoolers who were being.

[00:09:58] Natalie: place in my life. I, you know, I believe God was placing them quite honestly. And, but we were in a very comfortable spot at a Montessori school where it was a private one. We're paying quite a bit of money, but you know, to do income. And we felt like it was a great location for them. But I also had this tugging and I just realized like, okay.

[00:10:19] Natalie: And so as we met more and more homeschoolers, I began to look into this idea of homeschooling. Like who does that? Right. Why? Who would do that? Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, but here we are 23 years later. So we, we made that pivot. We pivoted actually right before 9 11. Two weeks, two weeks before 9 11 and which was about two months after we had entered back into military service, which was the Navy side that I referenced a few minutes ago.

[00:10:50] Natalie: And then our first assignment was Camp Pendleton, California. So we flew about three weeks to join my husband who was already there. We flew about three weeks after 9 11. I was expecting our fourth child. He was, it was 30, we were 30, I was 34 weeks pregnant, which was like that little window, right?

[00:11:10] Natalie: Where the stewardess flight attendants look like, ah, we don't want you on this plane. From east coast to California, that's some hours there. That's a lot of time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You look like anything could happen right now. Right. Yeah. 

[00:11:28] Alison: That's funny. So, okay, so, so you're, you're seeing, you're, you're just wanna be more present with your kids, like you just, I I get that.

[00:11:36] Alison: I can, I can see that I, I, 'cause I feel like I, and relate so much to the, the grind, right? Like, you get up and you take your kids to school and then you work a full day and you gotta, and especially depending on what kind of job you in, you are in you right? Are giving a lot of your energy of yourself in your job, and then you got to go get your kids and they're tired and you're tired.

[00:11:59] Alison: And then it's, and it's, it really is like that kind of rat race feeling and you're right. It does work for some people, but for other, you know, we're just like, I don't know. That's just doesn't feel right. Okay. So then you decide that you're going to homeschool. And so then what does that look like?

[00:12:12] Alison: Because I feel like if you're like, okay, I, I think there's a lot of pushback. For, you know, of like, I don't, I don't, I'm not qualified. I didn't go to school to be an educator. You know, like I, how am I going to teach my kids? And then what if they're older kids? Like, how do 

[00:12:29] Natalie: you, I don't, I barely made it through algebra.

[00:12:32] Natalie: How am I

[00:12:37] Alison: going to my kids? What does that look like for you? How did you kind of get into that and get that groove? 

[00:12:42] Natalie: And as I'm laughing, that is. And it's such a question that I hear all the time. I'm sure even, even families who aren't considering homeschooling and families who are, they're kind of daunted by that idea of like, I don't have the skills, right?

[00:12:55] Natalie: And you know, they see the, they see that, oh, this isn't going to go well. Like you said, I barely passed algebra, right? Right. Like, okay, this is not going to go well, right? Right. Yes. And so, but I really feel the foundation is, I really feel that parents, invested parents, right? Yes. Okay, I qualify that.

[00:13:16] Natalie: Everybody's a parent, then I need to invest it. And that's for another conversation. So I'm not, I'm not critiquing anyone, but I'm saying invested parents, people who really have their child's well being, right? I feel like those type of parents will always do a better job for their own kids than anyone else.

[00:13:33] Natalie: Right? So what does that mean? You find the resources. Now in the homeschooling community, there. Because it has grown so much, there is another market, you know, like the military is a culture, it's a different environment if you're not in the military, you can't even imagine what it's like when you enter the installation, and you don't know there's a bowling alley, there's pools, there's hospital, you know, commissary, PX mall, you know, you don't even have any way to understand that because you have your view It's on the other side of the gate.

[00:14:07] Natalie: But when you enter into homeschooling, you began to see, wow, there's so much available to support homeschooling families curriculum that is written by, you know, curriculum designers for homeschooling families online programs field trips, museums, and all that open up their doors specifically for homeschoolers during the day.

[00:14:32] Natalie: STEM programs, sports, everything exists that you would get. In a public school, you know the hardest part at some point, maybe we'll talk about the hardest part. I think it's when they approach high school and you start to look at like AP classes, you start to look at sports, those who want to play sports in high school or who want to go on and play sports in college and you know, that high school period is critical and we can talk about, you know, that our youngest daughter went through that process.

[00:15:00] Natalie: So, but in general, there's still, there's still there's still resources to make that happen as well. So, yeah, we, we were able to just jump right in. And we started with a basic curriculum that is well known. It is a Christian curriculum. It is called a Becca. It was really written for Christian schools.

[00:15:21] Natalie: And we started with it because it was just an easy foundation to start with. And then we pivoted and over the years we became what's called an eclectic homeschooler. There's different types of Modalities basically for homeschooling from Charlotte, Mason to eclectic to Montessori, you can be a Montessori homeschooler.

[00:15:39] Natalie: There's a whole lot. I'm not even gonna name all them because we could be here for a while, but I'm eclectic, which meant that we pivoted based on the needs of our children and homeschooling gave us that time flexibility that that space. To say, Oh, this is what you need. You know, looking at that child.

[00:15:58] Natalie: This is what you need. This is what you need. And we're going to get those resources in place versus them having to be who they are. And maybe it doesn't fit. Maybe they are square in a public school where it's a circle and you're bumping. They're constantly like jockeying to figure out. I don't feel I don't fit mommy.

[00:16:17] Natalie: I don't fit, you know, or you see it as a parent, right? And so with homeschooling, you can, you can make the adjustments that are that's needed to, to provide what that particular child needs. And so and as you can see, I am I'm not anti public school. Elder's daughter is an IB coordinator for DC public schools.

[00:16:38] Natalie: So I'm not anti public school at all. So I always put that out, but I am very pro, I'm pro homeschooling. And so, but there's a difference. I'm not an anti public school because I believe there are principal school systems, teachers who give, pour their heart out, who do a fantastic job and who really want the best for their students.

[00:16:56] Natalie: So I'm not anti, I just feel like for us, homeschooling was the choice. 

[00:17:01] Alison: Yeah, I, I can see that and I, I agree with that. I think we've been very, very fortunate that our girls, we've only, we, we homeschooled The year of COVID because we were in Washington state at the time and it was a hot mess and I 

[00:17:16] Natalie: was like, I think it was a hot mess 

[00:17:19] Alison: everywhere, but they were particularly hot and I was like, I don't know, like it was so confusing.

[00:17:24] Alison: We're going to do this. We're not going to do this. We're going to have a hybrid. They're going to need to be online from this time. And it was just like, what is happening? And so we decided that we were going to keep them home. And so it's just trying to find a curriculum was kind of a lot. And they were in.

[00:17:39] Alison: First and second grade at the time. So I was like, this is doable for me. Right? Like I can, I'm a regionally intelligent person. I think I can do this. 

[00:17:48] Natalie: So, 

[00:17:48] Alison: and, and, and honestly, I did like it because what's, what's great about it is that you, this is what you're going to do and it takes like two or three hours to get it done and then you're done and you're done.

[00:17:59] Alison: And then you're done and the girls really like that too. And they actually still talk about it now. And I'm like, okay, listen, I don't know. Now that you're in fifth and sixth grade, I'm not sure that mommy has the what it takes to be able to teach this stuff. So you have so many resources that, that.

[00:18:19] Natalie: Are available to teach it, to be honest. Yeah. So don't, don't think, don't put that hat on yourself that I am now having to be this professor or this teacher. Right. Okay. There are resources that are so available from online classes to co-op classes, especially within the military. And we can talk about the military homeschooling piece.

[00:18:36] Natalie: That's my passion. Yeah. That's, that's where I've done the most work over these 23 years. But yeah, so, but I, but covid. Was was a hard time for families who were forced into homeschooling because they or what we call school at home. I should clarify because there's no homeschooling. Hey, that was not homeschooling.

[00:18:56] Natalie: And it was not. It really wasn't. It was school at home without resources, without support, without a supportive community. Right? That it really wasn't the best view. Of homeschooling for some families who struggled through that period thrown into it, but then for others, they felt like, wow, this felt like, okay, I like this and they, they continue to homeschool.

[00:19:22] Natalie: So, yeah, 

[00:19:23] Alison: I do what I have noticed as my kids are getting older in schools is that I feel like they're kind of getting. Pigeonholed a little bit, you know, like it's the square peg and the round 

[00:19:36] Natalie: hole thing, like Right. So you knew what I was talking about. Yeah. 

[00:19:38] Alison: Yeah. I'm like, they're, you know, the, the creativity is kind of getting, because they've gotta tr they've gotta get 

[00:19:44] Natalie: them ready Yeah.

[00:19:45] Natalie: To the line and follow. Yeah, 

[00:19:46] Alison: yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they've gotta get ready to take this standardized test, right? Yeah. That's got, and so you're kind of teaching them to take a test and, I don't know, 

[00:19:55] Natalie: teaching them to pass, to pass a test. To pass a test. To pass a test, but Yeah. But not to necessarily love learning.

[00:20:01] Natalie: And to you know, you can someone who loves learning has the capacity to learn anything at any point, right? So to look at learning as, as fun as, as you know, the curiosity is, is great. And it's really hard within traditional public school to allow that because it's not that maybe teachers don't believe in that.

[00:20:23] Natalie: Right. Because they know kids are intrinsically curious, right? It's just that how can I allow, you know, I don't know, 25 or 30 kids To be curious, because then I have a certain thing I have to accomplish. Right. I get them. I get it. They have to do that. Right. Parents expect they're going to get through that year curriculum.

[00:20:43] Natalie: The teacher's job is that so yeah, it's a hard it's a hard to really. Criticize right if that's because the system is set up a certain way and there are requirements to get through for everybody on the homeschool side. Yeah, you can say, okay, we're gonna we, you know, and like you mentioned, it doesn't take as many hours.

[00:21:03] Natalie: Like, if you look at, you know, if someone was in a traditional school, like, let's just say a nine to three and back it up for how early. Typically, maybe if they're on the school bus, how early they have to be up you know, a lot of that time is not instructional. A lot of that time is you know, classroom management breaks, all the things right.

[00:21:25] Natalie: And they may not be getting enough play, play time outside, right? They may not be getting PE or art or STEM or anything like that. So there are some, it's a difficult, it's difficult. And I know across the country, Different systems are, you know, provide different resources, right? And I know that for us as military families, you know, once you're moving around constantly, that's one of the main things you're looking at is, oh, I have orders to Fort Bliss, or I have orders to Camp Lejeune.

[00:21:57] Natalie: What's the school district like? 100%. What's the best neighborhood to live on installation? dodea school, you know? Or if they don't, is it a, is it a North Carolina, you know, a public school? What's the ratings like? You know, all of that. And so we're constantly going through figuring that out. And it can be, it can be, it can be a lot.

[00:22:19] Natalie: It can be a whole lot because you can't always control in many cases. Where are you getting orders to? Yes. You know, and DoD doesn't really care if you say that's not the great school system. We don't want to go there. Right? So no. Yeah. And then that you can. Yeah. 

[00:22:34] Alison: 100%. And then you're right with the housing.

[00:22:37] Alison: And then especially now with the, you know, the baselist housing is usually sky high. And then if it's in a good school district, it Usually is not, unfortunately, and you know what I mean? And it's like, you just kind of, and then where are you going to live? But you need to be close to work and then, and it's, it's 

[00:22:54] Natalie: a lot living.

[00:22:55] Natalie: And, you know, it doesn't equate to, you know, so there's a lot. So, yeah, 

[00:23:01] Alison: it's a lot of stuff. So how did that work for you guys? Then as you moved around, what does that look like in the homeschooling realm? Like, is there, so if you're, if you're a homeschooling family military family, what is like the, what is like, what does that look like as you're moving to a new location?

[00:23:18] Alison: What, what are you looking for? Are there groups that are nationwide that you can tap into? Or what does that look like? Yeah. 

[00:23:24] Natalie: So you're looking to find your. Next homeschool community. So that typically may mean you're looking on the installation to see is there a homeschool group? Is there a support group?

[00:23:38] Natalie: Is there a co op? Is there a play group, a park day, anything homeschool related on the installation, as well as what's outside of the installation for homeschooling? You know, are there, are there co ops out there? Are there What are homeschool tutorials? You know what exists? And so as you move around, that's the main thing that homeschooling families in the military are looking for to get connected at the next decision, which is the same thing overall as a military family.

[00:24:05] Natalie: Right. As a spouse, that's what you're looking for. You know, where's the nearest Walmart? Is there a Wegmans? You know, is there, are we going, is it Piggly Wiggly? What's, right, right. You know, where's the nearest Target, right? Okay. Yes. Yeah. All the things. And so on top of that, you're looking to find your homeschool community.

[00:24:22] Natalie: But once you, once you're able to get connected in, things kind of start to settle out a little bit. So your curriculum stays the same because. It is. There's no reason to change it, right? Just because I moved from California to, you know, Virginia, I don't need to change my curriculum. Now, if I'm in, if I'm in, say, as they get older and they are doing dual enrollment at a local community college, of course, then, you know, you do your best to try to time your, when you actually move so they can finish that semester.

[00:24:55] Natalie: And so you get into where some families are requesting this high school stabilization. And so, and homeschoolers can actually request that as well. It's not, of course, guaranteed that it will be approved, but there is the same process for us as well. So yeah, but it, it, everything is, is, is just finding your next.

[00:25:15] Natalie: community and getting and getting connected. If you are moving overseas, making sure that well, let me back up before wherever you move, of course, you want to make sure that you're following the laws of the state that you're moving to. Or if you're moving overseas, if you're moving on which you should be, right.

[00:25:34] Natalie: If you're moving, you're moving on orders and you're moving to a NATO country with SOFA. Right. Status of forces agreement has to, you know, is in place. Then you have the ability to homeschool without any requirements. Oconus, if that's, if you're going there, if you're going to a location where there is not a DOEA school, then the N D S P, the non doea program.

[00:25:59] Natalie: Is something that homeschoolers can apply for financial assistance to help them in an area where there's not a doea school. So for example, if there's a Doea school, then Doea allows homeschoolers to register. You don't register to become a Doea student, you register as a homeschooler, you know, taking classes there at the Dday school, elementary and high school.

[00:26:24] Natalie: And then in high school you can actually you know, try out for the high school sports teams as well, which is what we did when we were over in Naples. So, yeah, so hopefully I answered it in short. Yeah. So there's, 

[00:26:38] Alison: so there's a lot of communities out there. So what's the difference between like, so a co op, what does that look like in the homeschooling 

[00:26:45] Natalie: community?

[00:26:46] Natalie: Yeah. So a co op is basically short for cooperative. So that just means that if I enroll my family, then I'm going to need to play a role in some way for that. Overall co op to be successful. So co ops can be academic. They can be supplemental, right? Courses or they can be a combination of both. So in other words, I enroll my student, my family in co op.

[00:27:10] Natalie: I may either teach our class. I may co teach. I may help in the nursery. I may do, be on the cleanup crew because if I'm using a church facility for the co op, you know, we want to restore it to how it was for that day. I may be on the snack crew because you got to have snacks for kids, right? And for moms, too.

[00:27:31] Natalie: I love snacks, too. Yeah, of course. So, you know, so some kind of way I'm involved in it, and there could be a fee, and there may not be a fee if there's not a fee. cost overall for co op, you may pay like a supply fee to the teacher, say the art teacher, and she needs you to give her, I don't know, 10 because she's going to get all the art supplies for that class for the semester.

[00:27:52] Natalie: So yeah, so that's a co op and it exists. Those are very popular within the homeschool community. Yeah. 

[00:28:01] Alison: Because I think cause I feel like I, that's like, I feel like I've heard that, that that's kind of how you, if you've got someone that's like, so I'm a science person, like I was a marine scientist. So I could teach what I know.

[00:28:15] Alison: Right. And then if you've got someone that's really artsy, like they could teach an art class. And so that's kind of how your kids can get those little extra things as outside of like the main curriculum. Right. 

[00:28:24] Natalie: Right. Yeah. And it's an opportunity for the moms to fellowship. Right. Yeah. Right. And the kids to fellowship as well.

[00:28:32] Natalie: And one thing I want to say is so funny is because you know, always get the question about socialization. How do they get socialized? Right. And so homeschoolers, we roll our eyes at that whole question, the S, the S question, you know, and so what I want to say right now, here. Yeah. Okay. Put a stake in the ground.

[00:28:50] Natalie: Give it to us. Okay. Homeschoolers, Schoolers are not anti socialization. Like we are human. We understand humans like to be social, right? Right. We're not anti socialization, but we do like to choose who our kids are socialized around, who they are socialized by. And so we have that ability as a homeschool family, not, not being discriminating at all.

[00:29:10] Natalie: That's not what I'm implying as much as, you know, you choose like what co ops you want to be involved in because they fit what your family needs. You recognize your kids need to go to a park. day or a co op or they need to be in a model you in debate club or a debate club period or they need to do congressional award or beta club.

[00:29:30] Natalie: All these things exist in the homeschool community. We have at Fort Belvoir, we have a four H club. And it's not no longer like Charlotte's Web. 4 H has expanded. My son, who's still being homeschooled, got a Google scholarship to attend an Ignite STEM conference for three days. All hotel expenses, conference, everything paid for by Google.

[00:29:51] Natalie: So, that was 4 H. Like we have the national beta. Club which started in South Carolina now allows homeschoolers to start beta clubs. So we've done beta We have congressional award which anyone can apply and you can go through the certificate and up to the medal level, right? To get awarded for your your service hours and we have a club called dc explorers Which means we the students plan a trip into dc and the parent two parents go we just kind of Make sure no one's like bleeding and cut somewhere, right?

[00:30:27] Natalie: But they, otherwise the kids have to figure out where are we going into D. C., how much does it cost? Are we bringing lunch? Are we going to buy lunch there? All the logistics are planned by the kids and the whole goal is to get them comfortable navigating in an urban environment because, you know, that's important.

[00:30:43] Natalie: That's a good life skill. That's a good life skill. So yeah, all of these different clubs can exist and more in so many places. And like I said community resources. Museums and libraries and other opportunities exist that are saying, Hey, we're open and we want homeschoolers to come because think about it during the day.

[00:31:05] Natalie: Like, you know, like there aren't a lot of people free to go to a museum. Right. But in the summer you see a lot cause kids at home, families are focused on doing family things during a regular school year. Everybody's. You know, right. Yeah. 

[00:31:22] Alison: So is there any military program that provides like financial assistance?

[00:31:27] Alison: Like if, hey, I want to enroll my kid in this club and in this activity and all of these things outside of what we do in our home. Is there any kind of stipend or anything like that that the military offers for homeschooling 

[00:31:37] Natalie: families? No, there isn't a stipend. Yeah, the military is very hands off. For the most part, we're homeschooling, but they affirm it really it's really a statement that DODEA has made that affirms, you know, military families rights to choose education for their children.

[00:31:56] Natalie: You know, just expect it to follow the laws. I should point out that one question that homeschoolers don't always know, particularly we're talking, obviously, within our military community is that, you know, you hear about this home of record, right? And how we always, it's military. Oh, the home of record, home of record.

[00:32:14] Natalie: So, for homeschooling, the home of record plays no role at all. And so, a lot of times families don't realize that they say, Oh, my home of record is Texas, but I'm living in North Carolina. So I'm going to do what Texas says, no, that's the wrong answer. It really is where you physically reside for 30 days or more where you lay your head, not my home of record.

[00:32:34] Natalie: It has nothing to do with the state laws about homeschooling. So military families really are expected to say, I'm in Texas. And this is what the law says, which is a great state. If you don't want it. have to report. Texas doesn't have any laws for homeschooling, you know, but that's Texas, right? Yeah. But New York, it's more restrictive.

[00:32:53] Natalie: So different state laws, but it's legal everywhere. And yeah, so it's, it's good. So is 

[00:33:00] Alison: that, is that a, is that a big challenge then? Is that a big hurdle? Every time you move to a new state, you have to. What you have to like check in with what their laws are and what they say and then does that impact your curriculum and what you do based on the different states?

[00:33:14] Alison: What have you found with that? 

[00:33:15] Natalie: Yeah. So for the most part I work part time for homeschool legal defense association, HSLDA. And so, the advocacy for homeschooling to be legal in all 50 states is in large measure due to HSLDA. Also, the state organizations, there are state homeschool organizations. So, for military families moving around, you just need to either tap into the state homeschool organization, you can tap into our legal page for HSLDA.

[00:33:44] Natalie: org. You can find out what you need to do when you move. And it's usually, it's very clear. And it's not laborious at all. It's not a taxing, it's not a taxing process. In some states, it's really nothing. Like I mentioned, Texas, as an example, you don't have to notify that you are homeschooling at all in Texas, right?

[00:34:04] Natalie: So it just varies. So what does that mean, though? Some states may have a requirement that, you know, I want state history, you know, state history needs to be taught. So then if you're in that state, you include that in during that time period that you are there, but that's not frequently a case and a New York has certain more stringent requirements.

[00:34:27] Natalie: Like I mentioned earlier that you would need to follow, but we haven't had a problem at all for moving from state to state. Like I mentioned, we've been from California, Virginia. Overseas dodeca, which was so nice and North Carolina and then back here to Virginia. So Yeah, I don't hear of many families having too much of a problem, but it is important that you do you do follow the law.

[00:34:51] Alison: Yeah. So like, so, and does that depend to on like if you have to report school grades and things too, because there's some schools that don't are states that don't require that. What does that look like? 

[00:35:04] Natalie: Yeah. Right. So all that's included on the state homeschool organization website or HSLDA, what you need.

[00:35:11] Natalie: So if there's documentation, like let's use Virginia. We have to, one of the ways that you can homeschool is you just submit your diploma, a copy of your diploma, and you fill out something called a notification of intent. It's called an NOI. And you basically are just listing your student, their grade.

[00:35:29] Natalie: And you list the math and reading curriculums that they need you put down just those that that not that they need, but that they are going to take for that year and submit that and that's a done deal. Now, at the end of the year, we have to submit standardized test scores. The child has to score. Above the 23rd percentile, which is which is not that is which is low.

[00:35:51] Natalie: And so it's not it's not it's not overburden some right at all. But you do need to submit that one of the ways you can homeschool in Virginia is religious exemption and some states have that where you have. Totally committed that you are homeschooling for religious reasons, but there's a process to prove you can't just say, Oh, my religion, you know, you have to prove there's there's a process that you have to submit paperwork to say, but you actually, yeah, but, but those are the, there's so many different ways like and you just would have to see what the state requires and they stay pretty consistent.

[00:36:25] Natalie: But again, The state lobbies to make sure, you know, they have, they have they have their eyes on the state to make sure that school districts within the states, right, don't try to require additional things that are not required by the state. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Superintendents who may go, Oh, you know, now all the homeschoolers in my county, you know, in my, within my district have to whatever we know that's not, that's not legal because the state.

[00:36:55] Natalie: And so sometimes the state orgs have to fight back. Sometimes HSLDA gets involved and we'll have to say, you know, tap a little bit on the hand, like, that's not quite right. Yeah. 

[00:37:07] Alison: Yeah. Okay. So as you, when you started your military or your homeschooling career with your kids, what did you see as you kind of evolved in, in your family dynamic and in your kids as they went, as you guys went through the process, what did that look 

[00:37:23] Natalie: like?

[00:37:24] Natalie: Yeah. So I saw this really awesome ability, like I mentioned a little bit before to tailor. Our education for each child and what they needed. So I'll use the example I referenced our oldest daughter, she and I think I have this in the TEDx too, that she went on a mission trip with dad, who's Navy chaplain and he was a command chaplain at Little Creek, Fort Story now is combined base, and there was an organization that sponsored mission trips to Ukraine.

[00:38:00] Natalie: And so she, younger sister and dad went, she came back and she says, Oh mom, Oh, I want to learn Russian. Oh, now I had been saying Spanish because I speak Spanish and I'm like, okay, you're going to learn Spanish. I can teach this. Yeah. But you know, also I'm homeschooling. To be able to say, okay, what do you need?

[00:38:20] Natalie: What are your passions? What's your interest? What's going to feed your soul? What do you need to become who you're supposed to become, right? And so when she said that, I said, okay, sure, let's do it. And so what did that mean for us? That meant we got as many free books as we could, instructional materials from the library.

[00:38:37] Natalie: We did buy Rosetta Stone and I said, let's try this. Let me see how invested you really are. She took to it like, crazy and just started learning and learning and learning and I've and of course I don't speak Russian so at some point I realized like You appear right because I could only say appear to be right.

[00:38:56] Natalie: I didn't know right. Yeah. Yeah here to be doing really well with this. And so we were in Virginia Beach at the time. I can mention that little creek. So we found that Tidewater Community College offered Russian one on one and one or two. So we signed her up for dual enrollment. And so she took Russian one on one or two.

[00:39:13] Natalie: We took her every twice a week. I think it was a class and we took her. It was the evening class. She was the only high school school or any class. Because even classes at community colleges tend to be older, right? Student, parent, you know, adults who want to finish, right? And so we got her there and she, and she maxed out the class, the teacher loved her.

[00:39:32] Natalie: She got an A in both. Teacher gave her an excellent college recommendation when she applied. Two years later. And so so I see now she gets to college and she's like, they don't have Russian, you know, and so they have Chinese and we're overseas at this point, right? She went with us for the first year of college and did online school over in Naples, Italy.

[00:39:52] Natalie: And then she said, mom, I'm loving it here, but I really want to have a college campus experience. So she ended up coming back to the States. And so she's like, calls me and I went overseas and she's saying they don't have Russian. And I said, well, what do they have? They have Spanish. And she's like, yes, but I still don't want to learn Spanish.

[00:40:09] Natalie: They have Mandarin. And I'm thinking, okay, now I knew this child, right? She had been homeschooled. So I said, okay, is that what you want to learn? She said, yeah, I said, go for it. So they only had a minor. She maxed out the minor and she studied a semester, a summer rather, in Shanghai and, and was able to, like, she's now fluent in Mandarin.

[00:40:33] Natalie: She's continued and, and been able to lead high school students through DC public schools over in the summer to, like, Chengdu, Beijing, and she loves Mandarin, right? And so, like, that's just an example. Now, does that mean every kid's You know, to a Mandarin. No, that's not what I'm saying. That's just an example of like our daughter, our youngest daughter said from seventh grade.

[00:40:56] Natalie: I mean, from seven years old, I want to play soccer in college. You know, we're like, okay, that's cute. You know, right now, this is great. Go, you know, kick that ball, get a go, do what you can do, you know, all the parties afterwards and everything. But she kept saying it and she was showing up and she became an incredible soccer player.

[00:41:14] Natalie: And eventually, yeah, we were able to go through the NCAA process as a homeschooling family. We were overseas. She played on the Dodea team in Naples Italy there and all the travel with the team and everything because we homeschool, we could stay after the games and travel and see. Right. And all the other kids had to get back on the bus to go back.

[00:41:36] Natalie: Right. So, yeah, but she got launched to play at a D1 school for soccer and got scholarship and everything. And so, you know, I can tell different stories. Again, not everybody wants to be a soccer player, right? But if you can just say, It's more about the passions and interests for your, for your student and how you can actually give them what they need to feel like, wow, this feels good inside.

[00:42:01] Natalie: This is, this is feeding what I want to do. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. 

[00:42:06] Alison: I feel that so deeply. I feel like, man, I feel like this is going to be, I feel like I'm bringing my daughter home. I just, I do. Cause I just like over the last year, like she's so. She loves to write and she loves to tell stories and she loves art.

[00:42:25] Alison: She's so creative. And I feel like she just doesn't have the opportunity as she's continuing to flourish in that. And I think that, I think that what you spoke of is exactly what. Opportunities you're given in that homeschooling environment where your oldest daughter was found because she was able to go on this mission trip that she really liked language and she connected with something and that grew into this beautiful thing that she's now turned into her career.

[00:42:52] Alison: And then your youngest daughter is like, this is what I want to do. How can we support? Let's go this way. And I feel like with our kids, sometimes that gets, that gets pushed to the side. Like, well, we can't do that. We need to do, you know? 

[00:43:04] Natalie: And so when you sit back, But, but the, this, it may not be the best for that child, right?

[00:43:12] Natalie: And we're not talking about creating a perfect environment. I do want to say that. Like, I'm not trying to say that homeschooling is this panacea, that it's the perfect environment that all homeschool kids turn out, whatever, you know, it's a sacrifice. It's a commitment. But through it all, it has been so worth it.

[00:43:28] Natalie: And my kids have said thank you because they arrived on college campus really confident in who they are and really kind of like, I'm, I'm not really. you know, they, they are a team player, but they are not a follower per se. Like, they are okay if the, if the, if the, if the crew, if the, if the, if the click is going, you know, left and they want to go right, they're okay with going right.

[00:43:52] Natalie: And so I think that being able to say, this is who I am and give kids the confidence to be okay. With who they are, especially for kids who have different passions that may not be, they may not be able to excel within a traditional school, you know, like if your daughter is a writer and creative and art and all, you know, some school districts don't allocate that much time for that.

[00:44:17] Natalie: And some don't have it at all. And so at what point is it too late? Not when I say too late. I mean, people can find it. Sure. Themselves, right? Later. It's never too late. It's just that, wow, the time that was lost and where could that child have been if Given the ability to create earlier, right? Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:41] Natalie: That's the whole thing. So, I feel like you're going to be homeschooling. I feel like you're going to be homeschooling. My husband always says, Natalie, every time you talk to somebody, and this is so true, they call me later. I'm homeschooling. I know. Because of you. So, I'm just saying. I feel like it's kind of.

[00:44:56] Natalie: Viewers are probably like, listeners are probably like, oh, I'm homeschooling too. 

[00:45:01] Alison: Right. Well, that's the thing. Because I think. So can you talk to a little bit about to those, you know, those other military moms or dads that are listening to the show that are like, man, I really feel like this could benefit my kid, but oh my gosh, I don't know that I have the commitment to this.

[00:45:20] Alison: I don't know that I, that I want to stand in front of my kid for hours a day and be like, okay, this is what we're going to do or like, because I feel like I had a neighbor when we were stationed in DC, we were living on Bowling Air Force Base and she had her kids. One of them was doing like a CD ROM program.

[00:45:39] Alison: This is, of course, this was like 10 years ago, was doing like a CD and that was his school. So she wasn't really his teacher. She was kind of there to facilitate like, okay, this is what you're doing, but he was really being taught by this program. So can you kind of talk to a little bit about the different styles of it?

[00:45:55] Alison: It doesn't necessarily have to be, okay, mom's going to stand in front of you and be like, here's the blackboard kind of thing. Can you kind of give us the different styles 

[00:46:02] Natalie: a little bit? So yeah, so to speak to those who are saying, okay, I really feel like maybe this is something that I need to look at for out for my child or our children or whatever, you know don't think again about the public school where you are having to be that teacher that you had growing up.

[00:46:19] Natalie: where she's in front of you teaching every single thing. Again, remember the curriculum and the resources that are available. And so, it can look so many different ways. Like, yeah, you have online classes, you have co ops, you have tutorials. Let's say for AP, let's skip to high school to advanced placement, right?

[00:46:39] Natalie: How can homeschoolers do that? There are resources that teach advanced placement. My youngest son is in one, my other daughter. took one. He's in an English language and composition AP course, and we are registering him to take the AP exam at the local public school in May. So there are so many different ways to get the education, you know, to your student, and it can be online.

[00:47:03] Natalie: Like I said, classes, they they do have the streaming now, so no more. The CD ROMs, right? Yeah, streaming, streaming is available. There's curriculum that's paper and mostly all curriculum comes with instructor guides that are written to speak to you, the homeschooler. They're not written to speak to someone who's not in the environment of homeschooling, right?

[00:47:27] Natalie: So it's very user friendly. They are written by homeschooling. Designers, really people who are already homeschooling from civics to constitutional law, economics, like, and, and, and there's resources like if you have a child who loves to to like art, right, you can enroll them in classes that are available during the day.

[00:47:51] Natalie: There's art programs as well. You can, they can write if they love to write, they can create and write their own book and publish it like they want. Yeah. Why? You don't have to be. An adult to publish a book. That's true. Yeah, it's true to be an adult to publish a book, right? Right. Publish the book, right?

[00:48:10] Natalie: Help them understand the whole process. That's your that's the schooling right there for, for that particular subject. Some families are what I call what are called unschooling, which means Does not mean no schooling at all. It just looks differently. Like they really delve into their, their students passions.

[00:48:27] Natalie: And there's a concept that's called strewing S T R E W I N G where a mom will go, I say, mom, you are no offense to the dads that are homeschooling, but that will go to the library and get maybe a bunch of books on oceans and oil and electronics or history. I don't know, you know the Roman empire, I'm just throwing out things.

[00:48:47] Natalie: Right. You know And they just kind of lay them out in different strategic places around the house. And you kind of watch which, where your student, where your child gravitates. Like, And you'll see them. Oh, picking up that book on the oceans and you see and they will amass all of the knowledge right about that.

[00:49:08] Natalie: My son loved journalism. The one he's a he's a senior now at George Mason Honors College, George Mason University here in Virginia, the Honors College. And so he loved he loved journalism for quite a while, right? Well, for backup before that, I thought he wanted to be a meteorologist when he was like, 7th and 8th grade.

[00:49:26] Natalie: So one of our trips to Florida, we did have a family who was an anchor news anchor. So we took him and he got to see a studio and took pictures on the, you know, big meteorology room and everything. So, but then that changed and we just rolled with it and then it became journalism. And so there, there's a program called Coursera.

[00:49:45] Natalie: It's Coursera And then R. A. on the end, all one word, Coursera. I think I have that right. And that Udemy is another one, right? Yeah. Where I, he enrolled in a journalism certificate. It was a five course certificate program. And so, and he had to pass the test. And so I gave him credit for journalism.

[00:50:05] Natalie: And so then he was able to also become a member of the Quill and Scroll Journalism, honor society. And so, I mean, it's in a model United Nations, he loved learning about international you know, studies and all. And so it was a model United Nations for, and he did, and he involved himself and went to competitions all over this area.

[00:50:30] Natalie: And and then ended up, you know, he went on to college. Now I thought that he was going to be in like international studies. But he ended up he loves urban planning, and so he's been doing incredible at George Mason. I'm so proud of him. Our oldest son was at American University and loved international studies.

[00:50:51] Natalie: He was the one that, you know, was he spent his first two years of high school in Naples, Italy. Our youngest daughter, who is his older sister, spent her last two years in Naples. So they kind of dovetailed. And I see like for him, he just I loved it. And so international studies was what he school that he went into at American University.

[00:51:11] Natalie: And so he's working for a nonprofit and lives in Anchorage, Alaska owns his own business. Yeah. So, and I really feel like we were able to say, let's focus on you as a person, and let's figure out what you need. The ability to pivot and finding as many free resources, right, because I know parents may be like that cost that cost.

[00:51:38] Natalie: There are resources out there. And within a military homeschooling community. I have been working like for, like I said Well, this is year 23 of homeschooling, but about 21 ish in leadership or of a group somewhere, or starting a military homeschool group like at Little Creek. And so I am doing a lot of work now at With school liaison officers, with MSEC, with Military Family Advisory Network, they've had me do article and do connections on their, on connections on the clock, it's like their reels.

[00:52:15] Natalie: I'm really advocating to bring the voice of the military homeschooler into places where military connected children education is the topic. But within that, the military connected homeschooler's voice is, is not being heard. And it's not at the table. Does that make sense? And so MSEC is military child education coalition, right?

[00:52:38] Natalie: M C E C. And so. Military child education, right? So whether I do dodeca, public school or homeschool should all be in there. Yeah. What resources do you have to support the military connected homeschooler? Right? So I'm working with the army and the Air Force because, you know, recruitment numbers have been down for two years in a row.

[00:53:02] Natalie: And they are now reaching out and flying me into, like, Fort Carson, and then I went down to Huntsville to Redstone Arsenal. I trained the Air Force recruiters in Leesburg last year, and I'm going down to Montgomery next year. It's all over the place because now people are saying, we want to reach the homeschool community.

[00:53:21] Natalie: We want to reach them, and so I'm excited to see where homeschooling is going. I'm really excited to be able to take... All of my experiences that I wasn't thinking were going to be used post homeschooling and we're still got two years, right? But I didn't know, I didn't know. But I'm excited because I, you know, I'm doing what, and I'm getting ready to start a podcast, I should say that.

[00:53:47] Natalie: Yeah! Yeah, base. And then the number two base to base military homeschooling. So I'm just at the point, I'm looking at my equipment here, like you have. Yeah. And so I'm just looking at it and I'm thinking, okay, I got, I have my trailer written, my intro and my episode. So I'm going to pull it out. Yes, the thing that is going to be exciting, I think, about that is like, you know how you said, like, what is it like moving as a military homeschooler?

[00:54:12] Natalie: We always want to know, hey, is anybody at Fort Bliss? Is anybody at, you know you know Ramstein, right? Germany? What is it like homeschooling there? Mm hmm. And so that's the focus of the space to base military homeschooling podcast is yeah, I'm going to do two episodes a month. I'll talk one episode second one.

[00:54:32] Natalie: I'm going to have military homeschool moms who are in these different locations who can talk with knowledge and wisdom about the resources within that community that community so that so that military homeschoolers can get some answers, right? Yeah. What it's like at that next duty station. So I'm really excited about that, too.

[00:54:53] Alison: Yeah, that's amazing. Because I think that that would be huge, right? Because and it's and it's building that little community, right? Like, how can we extend I'm going here and then I'm going here, but we're going and then you can kind of connect everybody. I like that. I 

[00:55:06] Natalie: think that's really smart. Yeah, exactly.

[00:55:08] Natalie: And resources in that community, not just the military homeschooler, which will be the main focus, of course, but what are the resources in the community to support the military homeschools on that installation? You know, so the school liaisons, I may pull them in to do something. It's just going to be just all about information and encouraging others and sharing my story.

[00:55:28] Natalie: Not to pat myself on the back, you know, but I am thankful for where we are and I see the fruit, but I want people to see the fruit, not so much me, but I want to see the fruit so they can be encouraged that they can do this. And if you're feeling called that something's tugging inside of you, your heart or your mind and you're like, wow, I really feel like.

[00:55:47] Natalie: I need to do this. Reach out to me, because that's what I do. I consult, you know, do consultations and evaluations to support homeschoolers, specifically military, because that's my, that's who I am, right? Military homeschoolers. Yeah. I 

[00:56:00] Alison: love that. So, so, so base to base, base. Two based is coming soon. The podcast is coming soon.

[00:56:05] Alison: Yes. I'll make sure that we link it in the show notes when you, the you. Thank you. I can add it in there once you Yes, once you get your, your little Google 

[00:56:12] Natalie: link. Yeah. Awesome. Right? or 

[00:56:14] Alison: your, your Apple Link. So, so then how can people get in touch with you and find out more about what you do and, and if they're like, oh my gosh, I think I might wanna do this.

[00:56:22] Alison: How, how can they get in touch with you to Yeah. Have a consultation? What does that look 

[00:56:26] Natalie: like? Yeah. So you can reach out to me at my email is contact. Natalie Mac at gmail. com. Contact Natalie Mac at gmail. So you can reach out to me there. I have a website, Natalie, and then it's a hyphen, mac. com. And on all the socials, Facebook, business page Instagram.

[00:56:48] Natalie: And what else? What else is out there? I know there's so many. Yeah, yeah. And I think what else? Yeah. All the socials. I'm out on homeschoolnataliemack. All one word. Homeschoolnataliemack. So you can reach me. I would love to help you because I really hope I really believe in homeschooling. I really believe, again, it's not a perfect solution, but I've seen, I've seen what it has been able to do, not just for me, but for people around me.

[00:57:15] Natalie: And at Fort Belvoir, this group here, we have over, about 125 families, Now here at Fort Belvoir and we have a huge co op on Mondays and, you know, I just see growth. I see growth. I see, I see kids excited. I see parents who are like, wow, this feels really good. So I just wanted to support my fellow military homeschoolers.

[00:57:38] Natalie: I really have a passion for us. 

[00:57:40] Alison: Yeah, definitely. Okay. Well, I appreciate all your time and your knowledge and sharing all your stories. And I think it's very inspiring. And, you know, your kids are doing amazing, which is just a testament to the job that you did that you guys did together. Right. Because that's what it is.

[00:57:57] Alison: Honestly, it's a partnership with you and your kids as they, especially as they get older. And then if, you know, people have questions about the little ins and outs and things like you're a great resource to tap into. Yeah, to be able to thank you. Kind of ask those questions and, you know, is this, but I, I think you're right.

[00:58:13] Alison: I think that it's something that's a very personal decision. And if there's a tug, if you've got that little tug and I've had it, I've had it for a while now, and it's just getting harder and harder and I'm like, Oh man, I think it's, I think it's going to be hard. Yeah. So if you're listening, And you're feeling the same thing, then maybe you know, just, it's worth just to look into, right?

[00:58:35] Alison: Yeah. Just reach out and see how it goes. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate your time so much and thank you for being here. 

[00:58:41] Natalie: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.